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You're gonna record us. Yeah, well, you know what I'll do, and then I'll transcribe everything. It goes from here, then I listen to

00:00:07.070 - 00:00:13.250

it, I write it out, and then I'll give you a copy and see if everything's okay. Because not everything that I've recorded has been

00:00:13.250 - 00:00:22.290

for the general public. That's what I'll say so far. So this is Joseph Angemi from the Avalon History Center, and this is oral history

00:00:22.290 - 00:00:30.690

number seven with Elsie Kuhn. Is that your full name? Well, Ruth was my maiden name, so I used that R-O-O-T-H.

00:00:30.770 - 00:00:36.150

Okay. But I was born Johansson. My folks were both born in Sweden. Oh, really?

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So I was L-C-U-Hansson. Really? So you're first-generation American then? Yeah.

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Pretty interesting. Yeah. I'm pretty new myself. I thought so.

00:00:44.450 - 00:00:51.110

Yeah. Both my parents' parents are immigrants. Mm-hmm. My grandmother was a Russian Jew.

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Yeah, I see that. My dad's mother. So, yeah, I'm the second generation, really. Yeah, well, I'm first.

00:00:57.550 - 00:01:04.450

Pretty neat. And that's how really we got here, because both my parents were born in Sweden. Mother was a Southern Belle.

00:01:04.550 - 00:01:12.130

Dad came from the northern part, but they met in Boston and married. And dad worked for the Swedish ball bearing factory, SKF.

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That's the Svenska Q Logafabriken. They say SKF, but anyhow. And we were born and raised in Hartford, Connecticut.

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But they wanted to make Hartford the insurance city, so we were transferred to Philadelphia with Royal Typewriter and all the other industries had to go.

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So we arrived in Philadelphia, and I couldn't believe my father met people that he went to school with in Sweden, in Philadelphia. I guess because of the ties, ethnicity, there

00:01:44.430 - 00:01:51.390

is a big, at one time, there's a bigger ethnic group. So there they were. And, of course, there were a lot of

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Swedes in Hartford. And that's why my dad changed his name. It was, he was Melk, or Johansen, and we were Johnson, Johansen, you know, all these.

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So when he took out his citizenship papers, the judge suggested that he change his name. Because it's easier, make it easier. It's the same with us Italians.

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You shortened it or did something? We all have a lot of vowels, so they always, as Americans, it's easier with one vowel or two than three or four.

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Same difference. Me too. So when we came to Philadelphia, and, of course, I was used to a little old

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Hartford. A little tiny town. We come to Philadelphia, and my father... Big city.

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Yeah. The men went ahead of time to try to find housing. And dad came back and he said, the

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houses are all stuck together in Philadelphia. All the row houses. But anyhow, he met these Swedes that he had gone to school with.

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And Sweden is full of lakes, and these people had a house in Avalon. Okay. And they said, you know, why don't you

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come visit us? Come stay. Naturally gravitated towards the water. Okay.

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Yeah. And also the language, you know, they were good buddies because they could understand each other. So we came down here on vacation with

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the Andersons. And actually, their house is still here. It's right across from the school. Still standing.

00:03:05.510 - 00:03:13.550

They're two little old houses side by side. And one of them was Algert Andersons' house. And we came down. Of course, my parents loved it.

00:03:13.550 - 00:03:21.690

So all during high school, my sister and I spent our summers down here vacationing. Did you have that as a second language then?

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Yeah, I could speak Swedish before English. Wow, that's wonderful. We don't do that enough in America. I know.

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You introduce somebody when they're this yea high and they'll get it when they're older. You try when they're bigger. It's harder.

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Language doesn't take the same way. And, you know, our boys too. We saw a lot of my parents. We were close together.

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And as they got older, they said, what other words are we saying that are Swedish and not English? Well, English is wonderful.

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Just like America, that there's always this overlap of language. We get little bits and pieces of everything, don't we?

00:03:52.930 - 00:04:00.350

Yeah, and the Swedes can't say there's seas and, you know, everything yet black. And my dad had a dog, Charlie. Okay.

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That kind of thing. But anyhow, after Big Milt and I were married, Dad said to Milt, if you build a boat, I'll buy a motor.

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Milt was handy. He did everything. So we built a 16-foot rowboat in our basement in Philadelphia.

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The end of the season, what do you do with a boat? So my dad went around looking at waterfront property.

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39th Street. And that's how we ended up here. Right here almost. Crazy.

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And I never thought I would be retired here. No? I mean, I really didn't.

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We were big city people now, you know. Okay. Went to Frankfurt High School. Philadelphia grew on you then.

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You went to Penn State? Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

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And that's where I met Milt, actually. But, of course, we love it. And my parents wanted us to build next door to them.

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But, you know, the stinking sewer was there. I've seen the photos. You know, it was unbelievable. Oh, was that bad?

00:05:00.350 - 00:05:04.510

Oh, sometimes it woke you up. It was so bad. Really? I mean, they really...

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And people always say the city, but you had to be around the island. It was awful. So there was no way.

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They had a lot. They bought a house and a lot on 39th Street for less than $5,000. Sure.

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It's not uncommon. If you went even farther back, these people were buying them for pennies on the dollar, really.

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And actually, we were the last street. 39th Street was the last any habitation at all. Okay.

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And then there was the big break until Stone Harbor. A mosquito path. Okay.

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We used to roll the windows up in the car because the mosquitoes would get in your car if you headed south. From the marshes and whatnot.

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Oh, yeah. Awful. But anyhow, that's how we got to Avalon. And of course, we spent all our years...

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The boys grew up here. Both of them were, you know, here forever. And then... When do you first remember coming here?

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Mosquitoes? The first years. What time frame was it? It was in the 30s.

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Okay. So that's way back. It's way back. Very little.

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I think there were three houses on 39th Street. That's three houses on the entirety of it. Yeah.

00:06:08.530 - 00:06:12.330

And I guess lots of dirt roads. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Not a lot of paved.

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That's what I'm getting to. Former Mayor McLaren lived across the street from us. So he was one of the other houses.

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But we just loved it. We just had... You know, we walked to the beach and spent our time at the beach.

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And then one of the teachers at Frankfurt High School also came here. And we had a candy store. Milt's mother was Betty Kuhn.

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And we had Betty Kuhn's Sweet Shop in northeast Philadelphia. So we opened a little branch on the boardwalk here.

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And the boys both worked in the store. But our teacher, anyhow, said, You know, Elsie, your boys would love the Yacht Club. They sail and swim and have a lot

00:06:49.670 - 00:06:54.090

of fun. So we joined the Yacht Club. And both of the boys sailed and swam up there.

00:06:54.150 - 00:07:02.410

And my husband was Commodore in 59. That goes way back. That's way back, yeah. So I'm the oldest walking, talking Commodore up

00:07:02.410 - 00:07:08.850

there. Still belong and active, you know. So that's kind of fun. But then, you know, the boys loved it

00:07:08.850 - 00:07:13.570

too. And they vacationed as much as they could after they... Of course, when they get married and have

00:07:13.570 - 00:07:18.470

children, you can't do that. Our lives change. So then they came to us. By this time, we had built another house

00:07:18.470 - 00:07:25.770

here. You know what else I've noticed? Getting stories from people. One is the journey down, especially for Philadelphia

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people. Today, you're here in under two hours from Philadelphia. Sure, yeah.

00:07:31.050 - 00:07:35.550

And then... Yeah, we were northeast Philly. Okay, not around the corner. No, no.

00:07:35.650 - 00:07:41.570

But it was... It had to be a real ride then. Well, a couple hours though. But the funny part too, of course, it

00:07:41.570 - 00:07:50.410

was not inhabited like it is now. We had a little Cocker Spaniel, Ginger, and she'd sleep all the way down. The minute we got on the Avalon Boulevard,

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she'd sit up and smell... Must have been the air. Yeah, and of course, we were here in the 62 flood.

00:07:56.650 - 00:08:03.430

Okay, how was that? Terrible. My parents' house was old. The guy who owned the house before them,

00:08:03.530 - 00:08:14.170

and it was a ticky-tacky, indescribable place. Like most of them on the island though. But he had, I don't know what you call them, bicycles on pontoons.

00:08:14.430 - 00:08:17.230

Okay. That he rented. Oh, I can picture. I know those things.

00:08:17.330 - 00:08:21.290

Sure, sure. Yeah. You still see them in places. Yeah, but I guess it wasn't too good

00:08:21.290 - 00:08:27.010

here because... And he had two garages in the front to put all these pontoons and boats and everything.

00:08:28.230 - 00:08:36.270

And my dad was handy, Milt was handy, so the two of them fixed it up. And so we stayed there when the boys were going through school and college in the

00:08:36.270 - 00:08:42.090

summertime. And I guess they both got a love for it. And Spark kind of, you know, I call

00:08:42.090 - 00:08:53.390

him Spark, kind of stayed in the area. And I can still hear his stories. The first year Big Milt and I stayed here, I said, well, else you're stuck here

00:08:53.390 - 00:08:58.650

for the rest of your life. And I thought, what did we do? What did we do? I wouldn't go back for anything.

00:08:58.990 - 00:09:02.150

You should have come earlier. Okay. It was fun. What was it that you fell in love

00:09:02.150 - 00:09:09.470

with? You know, just the general area, the people, it was relaxing. It was just, really felt good.

00:09:09.630 - 00:09:15.450

Small town? Yeah, yeah. It felt good. And, you know, now you can't even remember

00:09:15.450 - 00:09:22.570

where, like, Sproul's grocery store was. You hardly remember. The Imogene. Now you go down the streets and you,

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is that where the Imogene was? Or was it over there, you know? And the new businesses come and go pretty quick.

00:09:27.750 - 00:09:34.450

So that's what I noticed, too. Business one season, not there the next. How do you make a living on two months?

00:09:34.870 - 00:09:39.410

You can't. Not on this island. It's too small. Ocean City, you can probably pull it off

00:09:39.410 - 00:09:46.870

if you get the right niche. Yeah. But, you know, I think more and more people are coming down to live, but they're

00:09:46.870 - 00:09:51.990

older. That's what it is. Well, people my age, listen, if I could live here, I would in a second.

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It's not happening. I couldn't afford to, I mean, I couldn't afford to buy on the island. So, you know, I think that's what keeps

00:10:00.130 - 00:10:03.710

people my age away. We have jobs. We can do it, but we can't afford it.

00:10:04.050 - 00:10:12.790

And real estate used to be a win. After my husband retired, Jim Houdanich said, hey, Milt, I need somebody in the office. How about joining me?

00:10:12.850 - 00:10:16.150

He said, I don't know anything about real estate. He said, go get a license. So he did.

00:10:16.250 - 00:10:18.790

Okay. So he was with Jim for a long while. Really?

00:10:18.970 - 00:10:24.550

Okay. So, but that's when real estate was really a big deal. My gosh.

00:10:24.670 - 00:10:30.970

Well, our world's a little different today. The last five years, more than five now, I've changed the way people view real estate, I think.

00:10:30.990 - 00:10:37.630

I know. A lot of people my age want to rent today more than own. Owning was the American dream for a hundred

00:10:37.630 - 00:10:43.970

years, more than, let's say, 150 years. Yeah. And I think the depression changed that. Oh, yeah.

00:10:44.090 - 00:10:47.750

People think, why should I own this, pay all these bills? I can rent, it's easier. I know.

00:10:47.810 - 00:10:55.890

I don't have anything to worry about. And just the immediate contrast that I had, our gallery has a beautiful home down near Raleigh.

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Lovely area. A condo at Golden Shores sold for more than the price of his gorgeous house on lovely grounds.

00:11:04.750 - 00:11:13.470

I'm at Golden Shores now. And we got there when, as we were getting older, we had this house on the bay with boat slips.

00:11:13.470 - 00:11:20.250

And I'd come home, and Milt would be up on the roof and out doing things he shouldn't be doing. And then he sold the unit that we're

00:11:20.250 - 00:11:28.130

in at Golden Shores. And the gal thought Milt was kind of interested. Not me, over my dead body stone armor.

00:11:28.270 - 00:11:35.050

Oh, my gosh. But the gentleman passed away. He was a retired attorney, and he passed away.

00:11:35.530 - 00:11:41.430

So Rita came, and she said, Milt, you interested? It's up for sale. So we got a really good deal.

00:11:41.430 - 00:11:50.290

OK, that's how it happened. Yeah, so I'm there. And of course, Marty wants me to pay a little toll to come across 80th Street

00:11:50.290 - 00:11:55.550

to come in here. But that's OK. How was it versus Stone Harbor and Avalon back in the day?

00:11:56.370 - 00:12:02.550

You know what? Because today, there's definitely, I just won't go in here. Us versus them, it feels like.

00:12:02.630 - 00:12:12.450

Yeah, well, you know what, it still is with a lot of people, not everybody. But I can distinctly remember going up in the elevator at Golden Shores, and I wish

00:12:12.450 - 00:12:19.770

I could remember who he was. But this gentleman said, and where are you from? And I bit my tongue, and I said,

00:12:20.030 - 00:12:24.190

Avalon. And he said, oh, you'll like it much better here. Oh, it was a big difference.

00:12:25.190 - 00:12:31.990

And still, you know, a lot of people just want to, even jogging. And I'm at 80th Street, right at the border.

00:12:32.230 - 00:12:37.730

And the people walk, they get to 80th Street, turn right around. They do, don't they? You know what?

00:12:37.910 - 00:12:43.870

I've seen it happen, but I never really. The bikers, everybody. They use that as the turning point, don't they?

00:12:44.670 - 00:12:48.670

I've seen it happen, but never really until you said that. They don't want to put their foot in Avalon.

00:12:48.710 - 00:12:55.450

Is that what it is? It's the other way, too, though, isn't it? But our politics are so much better. There's no, that's the big difference.

00:12:55.670 - 00:13:03.130

Listen, it's ultimately the big difference. Avalon is run really efficiently, really efficiently. And you know, the Stone Harbor people are very nice, too.

00:13:03.130 - 00:13:08.310

I know a bunch of them, nice people. But the general feeling is. Their business district is nice. I like how you can walk through the

00:13:08.310 - 00:13:14.230

business area, little shops and everything. It's a little more comfortable in some ways, I think. We're too spread out.

00:13:14.250 - 00:13:20.950

We're spread out. It's not really a walking thing. Stone Harbor is. Yeah, but the Stone Harbor people complain about

00:13:20.950 - 00:13:26.870

it. Listen, that makes money for the season, so I don't know. I guess you can't win.

00:13:27.090 - 00:13:37.090

No, but there is that feeling, not among everyone, but a lot of people. No, I still, yeah, I've always wondered about that, how far it goes back.

00:13:37.110 - 00:13:42.990

And you know, even with the churches. I go to the Lutheran Church in Stone Harbor. And you can kind of feel, you know,

00:13:43.030 - 00:13:50.890

even in church. And the Catholic Church, too. I'm the only Protestant that goes to breakfast with the ladies and they're talking about St.

00:13:51.130 - 00:13:58.210

Paul's. That doesn't surprise me. I grew up in Catholic churches. And you would think the religious people would

00:13:58.210 - 00:14:07.870

say, that's okay, but they don't. No, that doesn't surprise me at all. Not in the least, really. So you have instances that stick out in

00:14:07.870 - 00:14:13.970

your head of this town that, you know, you really, when you say Avalon, you have these memories. Oh, yeah.

00:14:14.070 - 00:14:20.150

Particular memories. What kind of thing jumps out of you? Well, you know, our life was centered around the Yacht Club.

00:14:20.350 - 00:14:27.110

So we had so much. Okay, that was a huge part of it. Oh, yeah, a huge part. And in those days, it was very festive.

00:14:28.130 - 00:14:36.770

And the Commodores had special places. You'd go into a Saturday night party and the Commodore's hat would be on the table and he would invite the special guests that

00:14:36.770 - 00:14:40.390

he wanted. Like on a cruise ship. Yeah, and yeah. I've done that on a cruise ship.

00:14:40.390 - 00:14:44.390

The captain's table. We sat at the captain's table. And that was really something special. It was on then, too.

00:14:44.450 - 00:14:48.030

It was nice when we got there. That was nice. And the kids both sailed and grew up there.

00:14:48.410 - 00:14:57.150

And they have lifetime folks that they still deal with here in town. Learn to sail through the Yacht Club or knew how to sail it or, you know,

00:14:57.190 - 00:15:03.930

did they learn there or bring it with them? Say that again. Did they learn how to sail through the

00:15:03.930 - 00:15:07.450

Yacht Club? Oh, sure, yeah. Swim and sail up there. Oh, learn to swim there, too.

00:15:07.650 - 00:15:10.710

Oh, you have to swim before you can sail. Okay. Oh, yeah.

00:15:10.970 - 00:15:17.770

They're very strict. Because, you know, the Yacht Club is at a pretty dangerous spot. It's so windy and the tide is strong

00:15:17.770 - 00:15:26.350

and everything. So both boys have friendships that they still cherish from the Yacht Club. And then you just, then, of course, my

00:15:26.350 - 00:15:34.630

parents were here and my mother belonged to the fire department and the Civic Club and all those things. So they were giving away pins to people

00:15:34.630 - 00:15:40.630

who had been members of the Civic Club for more than 25 years. And somebody said, how come you didn't get one today?

00:15:40.930 - 00:15:47.470

Is it because I've been here 43 years? You're a lot longer. 50 is the next mile, then, I guess. I used to bring my mother to the

00:15:47.470 - 00:15:55.250

Civic Club meetings, you know, and so on and got involved with her. But I think it's just the people are so nice.

00:15:55.430 - 00:16:01.390

They really are. And they care for each other. One of the things that strikes me that I notice about this community, that I think

00:16:01.390 - 00:16:08.550

is one of the reasons I like being here the most, is the civic involvement. Oh, yeah. There's more people involved in doing things for

00:16:08.550 - 00:16:14.490

Avalon and the community at large than anywhere else I've been. I know. And I think that's a wonderful thing.

00:16:14.490 - 00:16:21.150

It is, it is. You know, I know my neighbors to wave. I'll talk to the one gentleman, but most of them, they're strangers.

00:16:21.490 - 00:16:27.570

You know, almost where you don't know their street and you may not know their last name, but you know where they live. Right.

00:16:27.930 - 00:16:31.750

Has that always been that way in Avalon, would you say? The civic involvement? Oh, yeah.

00:16:31.950 - 00:16:38.970

The community, helping the community? Civic Club, Garden Club, Book Club, you know, and the Lions Club. Lions too.

00:16:39.090 - 00:16:44.390

Yeah, others. You know, when people say, what do you do so much? I play a lot of bridge.

00:16:44.850 - 00:16:51.690

I enjoy bridge. So there's always something going on. So that's great. And you know, the little thing we do

00:16:51.690 - 00:17:03.510

in the morning is kind of nice. Mary Jane Cone, Lynn Covington, and Joan Hunter and I, we're the basic four, go to Brian's Waffle House for breakfast every morning from

00:17:03.510 - 00:17:08.770

eight to nine during the week. And it makes you get up, wash your face, comb your hair. Gives you a reason to do something.

00:17:08.850 - 00:17:18.930

And then I stop at the library to see our son, get my emails. When my husband passed away, our grandson took his computer and stuff, thinking I wouldn't need

00:17:18.930 - 00:17:24.030

it that much and maybe I'd get a little laptop, but I haven't yet. Haven't done it. And we're cheap.

00:17:24.130 - 00:17:30.210

So we share the press. They read it first. And then I get the press from a day old, but I get still the news.

00:17:30.270 - 00:17:37.550

It didn't change, did it? But that's good involvement. Nonetheless, you're doing something. And then I don't interfere with their life

00:17:37.550 - 00:17:41.330

either. You know, I can stop in the morning, check on what's going on and how you're doing.

00:17:41.510 - 00:17:45.610

He's busy there doing his thing. He says, they have a life and I have a life. Well, that's good.

00:17:45.650 - 00:17:48.950

That's good. Keep in touch. Right, right. So we, yeah.

00:17:49.090 - 00:17:53.090

And you know, at the drop of a hat, you can call somebody and want to do this. You want to do that.

00:17:53.550 - 00:18:01.190

Go to Atlantic City. I just went there with the Dennisville seniors. Okay. They, for a luncheon and show and a

00:18:01.190 - 00:18:05.110

little bit of gambling. And you know, that's close enough for a little variety. Sure, sure.

00:18:05.270 - 00:18:14.230

And Cape May is charming for variety too. So we have a lot around us. Although this summer, I think I've become more of a local because I need the summer

00:18:14.230 - 00:18:19.290

for the business here. Obviously, I want the people to come in. That's what I depend on. Yeah.

00:18:19.450 - 00:18:24.510

But they're difficult too. They can be. And then you're ready for fall again before you know it.

00:18:24.630 - 00:18:29.870

You're ready for that change back to the other season. So I think that's how most locals must feel.

00:18:30.170 - 00:18:38.010

They like the people coming for a bit, but then you've had enough and you're ready for them to go back. We had friends that moved in from York,

00:18:38.170 - 00:18:44.890

Pennsylvania. He was a doctor and he decided he would doctor down here. And they started with the bridgerama for the

00:18:44.890 - 00:18:54.370

hospital. That's a little fundraiser. You pay $15 to be part of the bridgerama, and then you play with seven or

00:18:54.370 - 00:18:59.730

eight other couples one at a time. And you get to meet people. You play bridge with people you never knew before.

00:18:59.950 - 00:19:07.490

But anyhow, so we were telling Catherine McBenaman that she's going to have a lot of people come visit her here that they would surprise her.

00:19:07.810 - 00:19:13.110

I said, oh, no, no, no. Our people will. She soon found out. Just stopped in to see how you're doing

00:19:13.110 - 00:19:18.190

because of the lovely seashore, you know. You can't beat it. Yeah. My favorite part of the day is coming

00:19:18.190 - 00:19:24.230

onto the island from the causeway. Especially this time of year with the birds circling. It's wonderful.

00:19:24.670 - 00:19:28.570

I know. It's beautiful. It's a draw. How can it not be?

00:19:29.290 - 00:19:36.550

Especially the way it's avalon set up. It's not overpowering with people. They're not knee-deep in people. So it's comfortable.

00:19:36.810 - 00:19:49.670

You go to another ocean spot, ocean city or wildwood or something, feels like you're elbow to elbow and not always as comfortable. Even yesterday we had MASH's Middle Avalon and

00:19:49.670 - 00:19:59.490

Stone Harbor Hospital Auxiliary. We've had a chicken and roaster luncheon forever. It used to be at Henny's in Stone Harbor and they closed their door.

00:19:59.630 - 00:20:05.450

Then we went to the Rockin' Chair. We went to the Yacht Club at Stone Harbor. Now we're at Sandbarren's.

00:20:06.670 - 00:20:14.130

It's such a nice social event from Middle Avalon, Stone Harbor. They all come and support the hospital. And that's good too.

00:20:14.190 - 00:20:20.710

It's very good. We used to have a ticky-tacky little Burdett Tomlin, but it's grown by leaps and bounds now.

00:20:21.410 - 00:20:32.550

That's another thing that's good. When we were here, people all went back to Wellesley Hospital, University of Pennsylvania. Jefferson wouldn't think of going to our hospital

00:20:32.550 - 00:20:37.590

here. He had to be almost dead to have to go here. Now they seek it out and say, gee,

00:20:37.670 - 00:20:45.190

we really had good treatment. Well, that's good to hear, especially for people living here. We have a relationship with the Auxiliary, made

00:20:45.190 - 00:20:51.630

it possible to do that heliport that they have on the roof. So you can helicopter people up to Penn or Jefferson.

00:20:51.630 - 00:20:57.110

If need be, right. And you're there in no time on something like that. That's kind of fun too.

00:20:57.150 - 00:21:07.210

We see the helicopter land at the recreation field at Stone Harbor. All of a sudden, all the trucks from Avalon and Stone Harbor come when there's an

00:21:07.210 - 00:21:14.990

emergency. And then the helicopter lands and everybody's out there looking to see what's going on. I unfortunately had one of those rides myself

00:21:14.990 - 00:21:17.850

once. Did you really? I was in a car wreck when I was 19.

00:21:18.130 - 00:21:22.850

I got hit by a drunk driver. I was in the hospital for almost three months. Really?

00:21:23.050 - 00:21:28.610

I didn't have a seatbelt on. I was before... I was 91. I was 18 years old.

00:21:29.010 - 00:21:33.550

I didn't wear a seatbelt all the time. No. And got hit head on by a drunk driver.

00:21:33.670 - 00:21:39.290

I was a passenger, thrown through the windshield of the car. I was in the hospital for months. And I got one of those rides.

00:21:39.590 - 00:21:45.230

Fully recovered. Honestly, it was half a life ago. I still feel it. Do you?

00:21:45.410 - 00:21:51.730

I feel the broken ribs. I broke eight ribs. I still feel aches. I broke this wrist.

00:21:51.870 - 00:21:58.350

I feel that. My lungs will never be quite the same. But I'm still lucky to be alive and thankful.

00:21:58.670 - 00:22:04.250

That's great. But not the best ride. I remember being terrified waking up in and out.

00:22:04.250 - 00:22:10.170

Is it tough to go back in the car again? It was for six months. Although I didn't do anything for a year.

00:22:10.330 - 00:22:15.870

Even when I left the hospital, I was pretty much bed... Almost bedridden. I'd go to the bathroom, to the bed.

00:22:16.170 - 00:22:22.530

I did that for six months at home. That's not nice. Oh, the pain was... I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy,

00:22:22.690 - 00:22:27.110

what I had to go through. But yeah, when I started, I was a passenger for a while. Couldn't take it.

00:22:27.430 - 00:22:37.310

And Treeline Road, on a backcountry road, it almost made me want to pull over. And I was a boy, really, you know? I was 18 years old.

00:22:37.730 - 00:22:43.050

Right after high school, it happened. Anyway... That put a halt to things for a while.

00:22:43.050 - 00:22:46.270

It changed my life. Oh, it changed my life, the way I saw the world. Yeah.

00:22:46.610 - 00:22:53.470

You know, you think you're invincible at 18. I realized quickly, you know, life's fragile. You know, like this, it changes. Absolutely.

00:22:53.630 - 00:23:00.770

I saw Europe out of it, though. After that accident happened, I made a little, what I call, blood money. And that's what it was, you know, from

00:23:00.770 - 00:23:06.370

the guy who hit us. Oh, yeah. And I thought that incident had changed me so much.

00:23:06.430 - 00:23:11.630

I needed to do something. And so I took a little bit of the money and sold a lot of Europe, really.

00:23:12.130 - 00:23:19.570

Stayed in hostels across Europe, everywhere through Europe. So yeah, something good came out of it. Uh-huh. I became a world traveler out of it.

00:23:19.690 - 00:23:25.070

That's great. It was, it was. And here you end up on Little Oliver. Well, I grew up in South Jersey.

00:23:25.330 - 00:23:31.790

So you're, yeah, you're a natural. Yeah, yeah. More Pinelands experience. I kind of grew up in the pines,

00:23:31.930 - 00:23:37.270

not in the beach. It's funny, because it's close, but really different lifestyles. Yeah, very different.

00:23:37.270 - 00:23:43.410

The water for me was about the rivers and streams and creeks, not the ocean. Yeah. The ocean was something we'd come and visit,

00:23:43.630 - 00:23:48.370

but. Yeah, that's different, too. Totally different, totally different. Still have a healthy fear of it.

00:23:48.810 - 00:23:54.710

You can see me on the bay sometimes, but rarely the ocean. Yeah. You know, speaking of the ocean, I really

00:23:54.710 - 00:24:04.670

am kind of anxious to see 39th and the beach. Our boys and the Leonard family, Dr. Leonard was a dentist, and they owned 39th and

00:24:04.670 - 00:24:11.250

the beach. And, you know, our boys, little sail bags on their back. And they had to ride their bikes from

00:24:11.250 - 00:24:16.010

39th Street to 7th Street. Right, right. It's pretty good. Back at the end of the day.

00:24:16.310 - 00:24:22.570

Not feeling it at the end of the day. They complained all the way that they had to go farther than anyone else on the

00:24:22.570 - 00:24:28.710

island. But they had, the Leonard's is strictly a beach house, and it's really a fun place. But it was just sold.

00:24:28.930 - 00:24:36.490

The parents are both gone, and they have three children, two boys and a girl. And the boys are dentists. They got their father's practice.

00:24:36.710 - 00:24:46.790

And their daughter Joyce is now, she's a widow out in Washington State. But it's just been sold. And it's a big lot on the beach.

00:24:47.490 - 00:24:54.750

And the house is here. And then there's a lot here that Bill Albrecht also sold. But the house here won't sell.

00:24:54.750 - 00:25:02.190

But I bet when that, it's under contract. When the monsters walk around it. Yeah, I can't wait to see what's going to go.

00:25:02.550 - 00:25:09.710

You know, it's really. You know it'll go up. It's going to be a doozy probably. And it's the house closest to the ocean

00:25:09.710 - 00:25:14.830

in Avalon. Okay. It goes out enough that it's close, but it'll be fun.

00:25:14.910 - 00:25:22.010

So we have, you know, a lot of families that we've known forever down here from the Yacht Club. And now second generation.

00:25:22.210 - 00:25:29.410

I'm about the only one, old one left. But the rest have gone by the wayside. Did you learn how to swim here in Avalon?

00:25:29.770 - 00:25:36.650

I did. Okay. But we'd come down, drive down Friday nights. And Hoppin, my, of course, parents had a

00:25:36.650 - 00:25:44.270

dock, had a tacky little dock. But it was a dock. And Milton and I would dive in the water, swim over to the public pier and

00:25:44.270 - 00:25:48.830

back again. And then go to dinner. Okay. Have dinner cooking for us, you know, and

00:25:48.830 - 00:25:56.510

so on. But yeah, it was, it's so different. I mean, anybody coming back now would never recognize it.

00:25:56.750 - 00:25:59.670

Never. You know what? I think that's America's story. Yeah.

00:25:59.770 - 00:26:07.090

Little towns are gone mostly. They're hard to find. Yeah. Well, a resort town like this though, it's

00:26:07.090 - 00:26:12.650

really very interesting. I love it. It's a fascinating story. This town has a fascinating story.

00:26:13.410 - 00:26:18.270

Today, I feel like it's, what's the word? Sanitized? Yeah. Do you know what I mean in a

00:26:18.270 - 00:26:23.370

way? Yes. Everything is very modern for the most part. The homes are all very modern.

00:26:23.630 - 00:26:29.810

The people, you know, when they're coming, when they're going, it's predictable. But it's interesting to see the houses, isn't it?

00:26:30.030 - 00:26:36.990

I mean, when Bob Golden was here, he built, you know, a lot of these little bungalows. And a few of them are still there.

00:26:36.990 - 00:26:42.250

I interviewed Bill Tozer a couple weeks ago. That gentleman built half the island, it feels like. I know.

00:26:43.330 - 00:26:51.550

Yeah. The Tozers are an old family. You know, has anyone talked to you about Rose Wells?

00:26:51.670 - 00:26:55.910

I'd love to get her. Yeah. I think she would. Her husband was a mailman here forever.

00:26:55.950 - 00:26:58.670

Oh, was he, yeah? Yeah. Oh, sure, sure, sure. Yeah.

00:26:58.970 - 00:27:07.150

So, and they have a mailbox outside for their, you know, their house. But she's, you know, not real, real chipper, but I think she could have some.

00:27:07.150 - 00:27:12.010

Oh, that's okay. It doesn't have to be chipper to be... Interesting stories, yeah. I always feel like if I can pull

00:27:12.010 - 00:27:17.830

one or two interesting stories out of these interviews, that's what they're about. One or two, it doesn't have to be more than that.

00:27:18.030 - 00:27:22.430

Yeah, yeah. Joe raced yesterday, two really good stories, and a lot of fishing. He's funny.

00:27:22.650 - 00:27:28.010

Oh, he's one of my, like I said, favorite people in Avalon. I love Joe. He and his wife used to dance at

00:27:28.010 - 00:27:33.050

all the scenes. He was a, he was a hoofer, yeah. Yeah, he really was. He did it in the Army, I learned.

00:27:33.630 - 00:27:40.830

And he's related to Barbara and Bill Graham. Yeah, the relations, he was explaining. He had a bunch, his family was here a long time.

00:27:41.670 - 00:27:49.330

But yeah, dancing was part of it. That's another area across the 24th Street Bridge. Yeah, what a lovely home they had. I was impressed.

00:27:49.790 - 00:27:56.050

You would have to, they'd have to pull me off of that deck every night, I think. We know this way back when we had,

00:27:56.450 - 00:28:06.890

one of the past commoners of the Avalon Yacht was Dr. Farrin, Ed Farrin, and he had money and he started the bank that was there way back when and so on.

00:28:06.890 - 00:28:19.290

And then he started to develop the Gold Coast, as we call it now, the author. And he was pleading with everybody, please invest it, $10,000 for a lot.

00:28:19.790 - 00:28:26.230

And out there in the swamp and the wetlands, new and now. Now it's worth millions. Oh my gosh, yeah.

00:28:26.650 - 00:28:31.110

Times change. Oh, do they ever. Real estate always has a value though, doesn't it?

00:28:31.310 - 00:28:34.930

How about the Rice's House in the Dunes? Yeah, how about that? Isn't that something? Yeah.

00:28:34.930 - 00:28:42.390

You ever think you'd see that in Avalon? I think money talks, that's what I think. That's what I've come to learn about life, wherever I've been.

00:28:42.650 - 00:28:45.930

A little bit of money gets you what you want. A couple of pretzels. It'll work.

00:28:45.970 - 00:28:51.110

Just pretzels. Is that house for sale now? I think I saw, was it for sale? Oh, I don't know.

00:28:51.150 - 00:28:54.850

How long was that house owned? Yeah, I'm pretty sure it is. Is it for sale? Wow.

00:28:54.850 - 00:29:01.670

So they had it for how long? All that fighting? Well, they had another one on, but they sold that 39th too.

00:29:01.730 - 00:29:08.770

Okay, I didn't know about that. They were on the west side of 39th Street. And she liked that house, the 39th Street

00:29:08.770 - 00:29:13.090

house, better. But it was on the... I can see why. Oh, more livable.

00:29:13.370 - 00:29:20.890

That other one was a mansion, I mean. It was on the hospital house tour. You know, we have a hospital house tour. And I was one of the hosts.

00:29:21.170 - 00:29:27.190

Oh, was it a nice one? Yeah. And she knew every little thing. And it was like a museum.

00:29:27.470 - 00:29:32.430

Yeah. It was lovely. Not necessarily fun to live in though. Who wants to live in a museum?

00:29:32.430 - 00:29:36.890

Listen, I love museums. I've worked in them my whole adult life. I don't know if I'd want to live in one.

00:29:36.930 - 00:29:41.970

You'd be afraid to touch anything. It was like that. It was for entertaining. Entertaining, strictly entertaining.

00:29:42.350 - 00:29:50.330

But I love that variety that we have. I kind of like to go down a little street now and then. I like hearing this because I appreciate some

00:29:50.330 - 00:29:53.690

of the new architecture. Not all. Yeah. I don't like the cookie cutters.

00:29:53.790 - 00:29:58.970

I feel like they can be nice, but sometimes it feels like the new homes... I'm glad they stopped. ...look exactly the same.

00:29:59.110 - 00:30:02.950

And you're like, oh. I know. We don't have many of those. Yeah.

00:30:03.190 - 00:30:11.450

We don't have many of those. And it's interesting where you've seen a little house, and then all of a sudden, oh. Right next to it, the giant one.

00:30:11.690 - 00:30:15.910

Yeah. Where you look at the poor guy in that little house. Can't see out his windows because that house

00:30:15.910 - 00:30:20.230

is... I think of that when I see them. And that's the stray older ones that have left.

00:30:20.490 - 00:30:23.950

They're here and there. Yeah. But not so many anymore. Yeah.

00:30:24.130 - 00:30:28.850

It's the property that people want, not the homes. Everybody used to build an upside down house. Yeah.

00:30:29.090 - 00:30:35.230

That's the term, upside down house. That's gone too. Fads come and go, I think, with construction. You get older, too.

00:30:35.310 - 00:30:39.910

You don't want to run up those steps. All the steps. My parents moved from a second floor to a first floor to clean themselves.

00:30:40.150 - 00:30:50.270

With groceries and laundry and everything. It's not easier. So that changes, too. But look at the library we have.

00:30:50.510 - 00:30:53.010

Amazing organization. No doubt. That's something. Yeah.

00:30:53.430 - 00:30:57.350

I'm a little, at times, a little jealous, I have to say. Yeah. I mean, I'm part of it, but this

00:30:57.350 - 00:31:00.750

is me. I'm sort of the redheaded stepchild down here. Yeah. A little bit.

00:31:00.750 - 00:31:05.930

But it helps. It does. It does. And I've got to create a museum here

00:31:05.930 - 00:31:15.330

from almost scratch. I mean, not too many people get to... We haven't sold Stone Harbor's library, either. You know, really, if you ask me, this

00:31:15.330 - 00:31:21.890

island's not big. It doesn't need two libraries. I think they should invest in something else. It's a lot of money they're going to

00:31:21.890 - 00:31:24.650

invest. Millions of dollars. They're finally making... Why waste that money?

00:31:24.850 - 00:31:32.730

I mean, a library's never a waste. But when you have one of the quality already on the island, why build a second? It just seems like, figure out something the

00:31:32.730 - 00:31:37.990

island doesn't have, and build that. You know? So instead of trying to compete... I know.

00:31:38.130 - 00:31:42.010

All you're going to do is, you know, it doesn't make sense to me. No. It really doesn't.

00:31:42.130 - 00:31:46.970

It's hard. And the location, too, is silly for a library, if you ask me. They're going to be filled with sand.

00:31:47.030 - 00:31:50.410

That's my guess. There's no way they can't be because of that. Yeah.

00:31:50.430 - 00:31:56.070

But the powers that be, I guess the Avalon did it bigger and better. We have to do the same. I know.

00:31:56.730 - 00:32:04.350

With everything, they're so... Us versus them thing again. You know, they were making a parking lot next to the museum.

00:32:05.410 - 00:32:12.570

That they need. They need that. The little museums are great for towns because they capture pieces of the place from before.

00:32:12.890 - 00:32:20.470

And today, I think museums are living places. I don't want to just say this is about, you know, 50 years ago or whatever. It's about today, too.

00:32:21.030 - 00:32:27.510

I think good museums capture that. So they're good for all communities. However, their trick is they don't have a professional staff.

00:32:27.510 - 00:32:31.650

They have volunteers that... Volunteers are great. I know. But you can't depend on them every day.

00:32:32.110 - 00:32:35.690

Volunteers are going to do things on their schedule. And they do that with a lot of things.

00:32:35.830 - 00:32:39.730

Like, I even understand that Rick Hall... Same difference. Yeah. So I've heard.

00:32:39.910 - 00:32:51.210

The gal, Miranda Duca, who was just a gracious, lovely gal, was the banquet manager at Sandbarons. She's now a recreation director in Starn Harbor.

00:32:52.210 - 00:32:56.230

No experience. That's not going to help. They said, well, she played tennis. I said, well, good.

00:32:56.230 - 00:33:01.770

You know what I've learned about museums? And I've worked in the biggest. I worked at Independence Hall. You know, crazy big.

00:33:02.070 - 00:33:12.670

Three and a half million visitors a year. And I've also worked at tiny ones. My first museum here were pretty small. All little guys face the same problems, you

00:33:12.670 - 00:33:20.510

know? Because they're usually isolated. It's hard to pull in a volunteer corps. And whoever starts it necessarily can't pay for

00:33:20.510 - 00:33:26.550

a professional staff. And when you can't, you're going to run into a whole set of problems. You're going to run into people who are

00:33:26.550 - 00:33:33.450

interested but don't know how to do it. It's just the nature, because they haven't been trained. So occasionally, you see successes.

00:33:33.670 - 00:33:40.830

And that's usually with somebody who's really smart, gets the learning curve out of the way. Does the school use this a lot? I try.

00:33:41.150 - 00:33:49.470

I just run a program, actually, with Stone Harbor School, because I have a relationship with Mary Beth Ross, the third grade teacher over there, who's another one of my favorite island

00:33:49.470 - 00:33:58.150

people. I run programs with her pretty regularly. We have this photography contest every spring. I got the kids involved this year.

00:33:58.530 - 00:34:04.790

They're taking their own pictures, and we're going to cut them and mat them for the contest. Oh, that's nice.

00:34:04.790 - 00:34:07.930

Oh, it's a blast. Some of my favorites. See, the garden club does that with the school, too.

00:34:08.130 - 00:34:14.530

We go in and do a little flower arranging class with them. And then they have a section at our flower show in June.

00:34:14.530 - 00:34:18.810

OK, they must love it, right? Oh, they do. But you know what? They all copy each other's.

00:34:18.810 - 00:34:25.330

Oh, really? They had one year they did one in a little shoe, because that relates to the kids.

00:34:25.630 - 00:34:29.510

OK. And they all got their favorite sneaker and filled it with dirt. And that's what it was.

00:34:29.510 - 00:34:37.810

OK. But this is valuable. You look around at all the things that the kids would really enjoy.

00:34:38.710 - 00:34:43.390

Yeah, I'm working on a new one now that might even be better, I think. I have a really, I think, a good idea.

00:34:43.670 - 00:34:50.450

That Debbie at the, what's her, Debbie Nae? Debbie Nae. Oh, she is. She is, she is.

00:34:50.710 - 00:34:56.210

Listen, that library is filled with smart town people. If I said why I'm jealous, that's the reason.

00:34:56.310 - 00:35:00.890

There's the staff of a bunch of bright people. I know. It's me and a part-timer.

00:35:00.990 - 00:35:04.430

It's hard to make change happen. Yeah. Are you part-time? No.

00:35:04.710 - 00:35:10.830

No, you're not. We have a part, you know, Benita is part-time. So it's hard to make, a person and

00:35:10.830 - 00:35:15.790

a half, it's hard to make change. Oh, sure. You know, it really is. And then you have to convince other people.

00:35:15.850 - 00:35:22.790

When you have a staff, a regular solid staff, Norman's good to work with. He's got it. Norman's been the best boss I've ever had.

00:35:23.170 - 00:35:30.390

Norman pretty much says, I don't know museums. It's your thing. If you need help, ask me. You know, if people criticize them, they don't

00:35:30.390 - 00:35:33.250

really know them. You know what it is, I think, that