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Good morning. Thank you for being here with us. Today is the 18th of September 2024. I am Shannon Nagle. I work for the Avalon Library and History Center. It's my pleasure to conduct this interview today for the Avalon History Center Avalon History Center or Oral History

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Project. Um, if you could state your full name for me, please, Jan Van Dyke. Excellent. Can you give me your date of birth? You can just give me the year if you want to. 1953. OK. And where were you born? Uh, in Brynmar, Pennsylvania. Is that

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primarily where you grew up? I grew up in Radnor OK and started coming down to Avalon in 1957. And you told me your family rented a one bedroom for 10 years before they bought. Where was that? It was at uh 26th Street next to the old

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school and it was literally a foot from the property. They had a cement line where the end of the little playground, uh, ended and in those days of course there I don't think there was zoning in Avalon. And there weren't too many rules about, I don't

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think there were any rules about anything. So, um, yeah, those are unusual. I've always remembered unusual placement of this little cottage. What was the what was the address at the time? I don't know if you were facing the school, what side of the building was it

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on? On the right, OK. And next to that was a little brown house. Next to that was a little red house on the corner of 26 and Dune, and that's, uh, where, uh, The Paper Peddler and Tortilla Flats would later be be built there across the

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street there's a little white house in the corner of 26th and Dune where the bank is today. And then when you went down that side of the street. Uh, where the bank is, uh, there was just bayberry and pine trees, uh, just empty lots, and

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you went down the street and then there were a couple houses as you went toward the bay and then I believe there was a Sunoco station at the end of the street. Across the street on the side of the old school was, uh, Virginia's beauty salon

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and apartments and there were one floor, little, little, little apartments. And then there was a two lot house, little house, one floor house, um, that had all the 1950s, uh, uh, the, the, uh, you know, the pink flamingo and the cat on the roof and had

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all the the decorations, lawn decorations, and that was sat on, uh, two lots. And then there was the old school and then there was our um our little cottage, which was a one bedroom and. There were 6 of us in our family in the 1 bedroom

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cottage. How long did you stay? We would say the last 2 weeks of August. My parents have the bedroom. I would sleep in the on the couch in the living room, my brother would sleep with me on the living room on a cot, and the attic

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was uh a half finished attic with a floor on half of it, and my other two brothers would sleep in cots up in the attic. And I can tell more stories about that later. How old were your brothers at the time? They were, they were teenagers,

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uh, I'm Well, my one brother would have been. Just a couple of years older than I am, so. you know, before the teen years. Um, I guess I'll tell you there was one story in the last oral history that I didn't talk about about the house.

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Uh and this was in the early 60s, uh the house that we, we come back and we have cold showers because there was no hot water in the, in the house. So, um, so my father. And the owner of the house was Joyce White. And she

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uh agreed with my father that we would build this little addition to the back, cause when you came to, there was a 1920s stove, gas stove, which was a lot of fun, the light with a long match. And next to the stove was really an outside

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door and you open that door up and there was like lattice work and like a boardwalk outside and the toilet was out on the sort of like boardwalk and it was like lattice with plastic around and the wind would blow the plastic. So when you went

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out to the bathroom you're actually going outside essentially. So, um, so one Saturday morning or 11 morning. I went with my parents inland to Route 9 to a lumberyard and we, we bought the, the, uh, 2x4s in the plywood and while we were gone, my older

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brothers and with the crowbar tore down all this little, you know, set up here in the back. And, uh, tore it down and then, and then they built, uh, this sort of addition in the back and put up the walls and the 2x4s, put down plywood.

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And then, uh, later, um, bring in a contractor who did put in, put in a sink, which was really exciting, a medicine chest with lights on either side of the medicine chest, uh, and put it down the plywood floor and linoleum floor. And uh and a

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hot water heater and this was all in the the new edition. Now we didn't have a level, so when the little window went into the bathroom, the window was at an angle. So he drove around on 25th Street and looked at the back of the house,

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you know, you see this little window at an angle. So, uh, yeah, so, and we didn't go through any, um, any rules, any paperwork, uh, you know, no zoning at all, you know, no, no regulation. We just built, built this edition, and there it was, but

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we, we thought, you know, that was a pure luxury to have, uh, we would have warm showers after going to the beach. And having hot water was a big feature. I bet it had to be a definite upgrade. What did your father do for a living?

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Was he handy? Was he? He was, he was a regular Mr. Fix it and all my older brothers were uh very good. I mean they were, you know, all sort of Mr. Fix it types, but he was a he was a lawyer and he was a

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um. Um, Uh, as a hobby, it was a composer of, uh, he, he wrote choral music. It was published by Shawnee Press, and he also had a great passion for history. He ended up writing a book about the history of the Van Dyke family, family and

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traced that this is before the internet. He traced. You know, going to courthouses and cemeteries and so forth, he traced our history back to 1652 to New it's a Long Island that's where the original settled. That would make sense. And then they just moved down in

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the North Jersey around 1700. My father was from Bradley Beach. My mother was from Ocean Grove, and my father was a lifeguard and my mother was uh an X-ray technician and uh. Uh, I can tell that story. It was just an unusual one. I like that.

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Let me get you, let me, let me get you to tell me their names before I forget. Paul Van Paul Van Dyke, Paul C. Van Dyke, and June Vandyke. And um Uh they met because he was a lifeguard and he was in the, the water

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is very deep up there. It's not a nice gentle surf we have an Avalon and, and, uh, a wave hit him and he was thrown from the front of the lifeguard boat to the back. He landed on his back and broke his back. And this is

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in the 1930s. He ends up miraculously surviving two surgeries. I can't imagine being in a hospital in the 1930s, having back surgery. And they took a piece of bone from his shin and tried to graft it into the vertebrae in his spine, and the first surgery

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didn't work, it didn't take, and the second one did and it worked, uh, I'm told that surgeons in the 1970s wouldn't even thought of doing that kind of surgery because one mistake he would have been paralyzed for life. It was such a risky surgery, but he

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survives and his best friend had an aunt who worked at the hospital and said to my mother, you have to meet Paul Van Dyke, he's laying in traction down the hall. And so he, my mother met my father when he was flat on his back, and

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he had nowhere to go. He was, he was going anywhere fast. And so after her work hours as an X-ray technician, she would come and visit him and talk with him. And fortunately for me, that's why I'm here today. That's great. That's really sweet. The story

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of how he came to Avalon is really unique in that. He grew up and he took piano lessons, and then later he would take organ lessons, and I would meet his, his organ teacher years, many years later. And because of that, when he went to college

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in Philadelphia, he ended up, uh, that's how he helped. Pay for some food and some expenses, and he had a scholarship and, and uh so he was an organist and choir director. And so then, then he started out, he graduated, he He amazingly went to the

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University of Pennsylvania on scholarship as an undergraduate and his law school, or else he never would have been able to afford, you know, to go to college. And um he graduated from law school and he's trying to start his practice. He goes back and talks to

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one of his professors, and they said, um. You know, uh, my, my church in Rosemont needs an organist, and, uh, and so he became the organist. So then he joins the, the guild of American organists. He starts to meet other organists, and he meets an organist

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named Mr. Spratt. And Mr. Spratt, his wife had a friend. Her friend was Joyce White. Joyce White happened to have this little cottage on Twenty-sixth Street. And that's how we came to Avalon. I'm very fortunate that my father took piano and organ lessons. So that whole

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circle would actually never recurred otherwise. That's serendipity, right, because in 1957 no one had ever heard of Avalon, New Jersey. Right. And if they were from up north in Ocean Grove and Bradley Beach, you know, you would think they would gravitate toward there. It's actually on

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my list to ask you how did your family end up choosing Avalon as a place to stay. Yeah, no, that's that's how it occurred and he He comes from um a public he graduated from Asbury Park High School and uh he, I, I've been looking through

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old notes and what I gather he may, he and his father may have paid the first semester at university, but it was in the 30s, it was the depression. They didn't have any money and very much money and um um. And then, and then he, he

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got this scholarship. And I, the best I can figure out, maybe he got his second semester or his sophomore year or something but he had the scholarship because You know, otherwise they couldn't afford it, so. So that's how he came to the Philadelphia area, and then

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that's how they through that organ connection and organist connection came. Did your family attend any of the churches down here while you were here? Uh, no, not really. Although they sent my brother Gary and I, we, we would go to the, uh, uh, Saint Saint John's

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by the Sea Episcopal Church, and I remember attending that a few times, but, um, and then later they would go to the Episcopal Church in Harbor. Remember that. Yeah, so yeah. Yeah, they, they, they Little church that's only open about 4 weeks a year. You only

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have one in Avalon. Right. It reminds me of the one in Cape May Point. It's um, so then your family stayed 10 years renting and then we're able, we're in a position to buy a house. Now where was that house and tell me a little bit

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about that. Yeah, that was 238 68th Street and uh he ended up meeting uh Jim Tracy a builder originally saw a house for sale about 17th Street. Is that off First Avenue. And I remember he came down one weekend and he said, I'm only gonna bid

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this goes over that, you know, I won't take it, and so he lost the bid. But in his research, he found Jim Tracy, the builder, and he was developing lots on 68th Street. So our house is in the middle of the of the block, the 238

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and. At the time, uh, yeah, I wrote this down, um, 19 May of '67, uh, there was, there were two little cottages on the beach block in 68th Street. That was, that was all. Uh, there was in the bay block there were all empty lots. There

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was nothing there. Later Brady's would open on that corner, but there was nothing there and there were many empty lots in the middle of the street, but he had started to build what they called the Upside down houses um at at that point. Um, And we

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uh Uh, and my parents, of course, are very excited about the construction, and we came down, I think in January '67 and stated that in the winter it was under construction. And uh my memory is we actually took a picnic lunch and we went up, we

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went up the ladder and we ate on the unfinished uh floor or what would be the kitchen and had a picnic in January of '67 or something. Um, and we stayed at the Golden Inn, uh, that weekend, which, uh, I believe was much more affordable than

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it would later become, uh, and that was the only motel there, um, did the Golden, were the Golden there? Were they operating that at the time, or was that just they owned it? I don't know. OK, so you never met Bob Golden or his wave, so

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that was, that was now, um. Uh, behind us was um. Uh, a little house that was just recently torn down. It was on, uh, this would have been on the 70th Street behind us, and there was a little concrete wall between us, like about 2 ft

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high or foot high, and they had a garage and a couple of houses and it was two lots and they've been there since the 1920s and. In the late 60s and early 70s, I remember that the person had a little hair salon in her house or

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added on to her house. I remember my mother walked around the corner, had her hair done a few times, probably no zoning, but probably hair salons on 70th Street, you know, a little, little different in those days. And then on, um, 69th around the corner. With

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69th and Ocean Drive was a laundromat. OK, you don't think of laundromats and Avalon today too often, you know, but. Were there two at that time or was that the one? I don't know. Did you ever have to go down there? I've heard stories about the

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owner. I'm not sure if it's the same owner, but some people have posted social media will post things and people like that woman didn't like kids. I don't know me. I know, I know, uh. My mother went there a few times. I think she, she had

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something that was really heavy. She needed a big washer dryer. I went there a few times, and there was a phone booth outside the laundromat there in 69th Street. I remember my mother making a few phone calls there because we had our house built. My father

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didn't want any electronics, so we had no phone, no TV, or no radio. And I remember I wanted to hear if I had a long interest in politics and in the '68 convention, I wanted to hear what was going on. So I went out on our,

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on our car, and our car only had AM radio because in those days you had to pay extra if you wanted FM radio in your car, and we had an AY AM radio and I may have gotten KYW or I could hear a little bit of

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the Democratic convention if I just turned the battery on, not turning the car all the way on, just turning on to the battery, and that's how I heard a little bit of the Democratic convention. So a little, I maybe a little bit more frugal in the

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way people live today in Avalon. With all the technology. Yeah, but you know what, there is something about people who are trying to come back to that, you know, getting disconnected when they're on vacation, you know, so it's like this is our and this is our

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happy place we're coming here, and I don't want anything from the outside world. Maybe. Do you think that was your father's motivation for it? Oh well, he, you know, he was always, he, he always wanted quiet time. He loved quiet, you know, that was just his

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personality, you know, and, and the peacefulness, you know. I mean, he, he, my parents just love the beach and they love the ocean, and so that's, that's why they that's why we came. That's what it was all about. And then your family's continued to come to

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the house since then you brought your children. Yeah, we would rent it in the summer and then after a while we stopped renting it and then we rented it again and we would come, uh, year round, uh, in the winter in the spring and the summer

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and come on weekends, lots of weekends, especially of course the fall is so beautiful and the spring is beautiful at the shore. And, uh, you know, we came here around. Did you celebrate holidays here at the time or? No. No. No, we didn't understand my brother

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brought his family here a few years ago or something for Thanksgiving or something. I feel like it's become a newer tradition for people to come down for Thanksgiving now, you know, like people will, will come and have Thanksgiving, but it, it, it feels very new, like

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the last 10 years. So I was curious if that was a thing in your family. I know usually everybody's family is bigger, larger families, you know, back in your primary residence, so yeah, it was always, you know, back home here. Um, what about, uh, so. I

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will. It's you're selling, your family's selling the home. You said you sold it, right? And this is your last hurrah this end of the month. Yeah, we didn't have a Another really, yeah. Kind of sad. Yeah. But I have some other stories if you have other

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questions. Sure, let's see. I want to know. Um, what about? sporting events and playing games and friendships and like your childhood relationships and things that you did when you were a kid. And, you know, did you play ball, a group of people, did you fish a

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lot? Did you surf? You know, so, um, what we would do, um, I didn't get to them, we were just here for two weeks, and, you know, I really didn't get to know neighbors or things like that. Uh, so I had 3 older brothers, so we

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would, uh, our tradition when we lived at 26th Street was, uh, to drive down, we put plastic on the car seats and we drive down to 13th Street because again my father wanted, you know, quiet, not too many people around, and the pictures I've, I've given

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to the History Center show, show us. Uh, on the beach with nobody around us at 13th Street, and this is in the last two weeks of August. It's already a little late on the ground. And so my father had iron horseshoes, so we would all play

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with my father and my brothers and I would play horseshoes with each other and that was the big sport. I. Brother Gary and I would play with a rubber ball. We sort of play pop up, you know, throw the ball up there. Let's see if you

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could be an outfielder. We play some wiffle ball. Uh, my brother Don loved the kite, and he bought paper kites at Hoys, and he had the traditional triangular kite with a little tail on it. He had what then became a box kite, and then he had

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one was a bird. It was made out of silk, you know, the fancier kite, I got away from the paper, but he used to like to do that. Then, uh, uh, I would, you know, I love uh making things out of the sand. Of course, we,

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my brother Gary and I would dig a hole and see if we could hit water in the dry sand. And we build a dry sand like pyramid and put a ball on it and swatch it spiral down the down the hill. Uh, we used to be

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able to play in the dunes. There used to be large dunes, uh, like 12th, 13th, 14th, down, and they all got wiped out in the 62 storm. Uh, and we'd walk around in the dunes and the kids would build little, you know, forests in the sides

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of the dunes, and then we discovered the teenagers evidently maybe left some broken beer bottles so you had to watch for broken glass, you know, because they evidently like the dunes as well. And I think they had little cookouts up there too and and so and

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then um. Uh, But I like to play in the wet sand and and make uh make houses. Now most kids make sand castles, but for some reason I made developments so I would have these houses and I would build roads between them and I have ocean

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front houses and then bay front houses and I would build little, you know, dig holes and create little bays, you know, inlets. And the adults would come along and say, what is this? And I was always surprised. I had to explain to them they didn't understand

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what it was. Well, these are the roads, these are the oceanfront homes, these are the bayfront homes, you know, and. But I, I would, I would just do that for hours on end. Oh, that's fantastic. And then, and the last oral history I talked about the

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lifeguards savings. That was a dramatic, dramatic story. Yeah, very, very dramatic, and, and we see, you know, the MSC fishing boat would come out there and I think it was the Robert Kramer fishing boat. I just remember those two names and we'd have the. We had

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binoculars and we watched the boats coming in and out of the inlet, and that was, that was fun. Did you go to the pier and go to the movies or any of the dances? No, movies were sort of like, you know, kind of. My parents weren't

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movie folks, but I do have is one of the memories I have here, very specific memory of the movie. Now my, the, on the beat on the boardwalk, of course, which wasn't commercial except for the movie theater, there was a little gift shop across from the

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movie theater and they had they sold shells and my brother John has uh quite an extensive shell collection, and we would pick up shelves on the beach, but he would buy shells from that gift store on, on the boardwalk there. Definite memories of that for sure.

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And then at the movie theater I went with my brother Glenn and my brother Gary, and it was a double feature in 1965 and it was Lilies of the Field with Sidney Poitier, and the second feature was It's Never Too Late with Fred McMurray. It's sort

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of a comedy thing and. My brother Gary decided that he didn't want to see that and so he went out to the boardwalk and he watched a thunderstorm at sea so you could see all the lightning flashing out in the ocean and, and I stayed with

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my brother and watched it's never too late and you can look that up on Google and it actually is a a real movie and it was a feature movie in the summer in 19. 65 or 66 that's fantastic. We have a lot of the movie flyers

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they used to give out. We might actually have it. I'll have to look and see. That would be great. And I remember the flyers for sure little kids would run around and they'd slide it under your screen screen porch, right? They got to do that or

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like free movie tickets, right, right, and there would be a pile of them and you know, all around town and they would be distributing those. And everybody had a screened-in porch. Nobody had decks because you would be eaten alive by the mosquitoes here. And once the

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dust came, mosquitoes were all over the place and uh. And of course I remember the, you know, the DDT truck would spray and some of the kids would follow the sprayer and my mother was pretty smart and she said, I don't think this we didn't know

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about DDT, but she says, I don't think this is good for you. So when the spray truck would come down the street, we'd run around and close all the windows. OK. So your mother was a wise woman. Yeah, we tried to stay away from that stuff.

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It probably was, wasn't good for you, so, uh. I think the people who followed the truck and breathed it in would have superpowers by now. They're no longer alive very short lifespan. But I also remember, uh, in the summer of '66, it's the movie I gave

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to the, my father took home movies and uh last summer I, I, uh, my son uh edited them and we gave them to theory Center and one is the baby parade and I wonder. If there's some people that are still in Avalon that might recognize themselves,

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because we, they were uh um you can see the baby parade, you can see the people in the parade. Um, the little children and their parents, and, uh, one of the features of the annual baby parade was they'd always have a string band. I remember a

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string band in the parade, you know, that would always see in the mummers parade. And I remember for several years, the hobo van from Pittman, New Jersey came, and they were all dressed as hobos and the conductor had a toilet plunger conducted the band and it's

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very and then at the end of the parade, of course, would be the fire engines and the and the police cars. Very, very excited. All the kids today, even today, right, and it was, that was, that was the big, big event in Avalon every summer was

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the and you'll see on the movie, you'll see cars parked at angles next next to the parade because there was no. Yeah no rules or regulations at all. It's like just park wherever you want. I'll have to find it and clip it out and post it

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on our social media. We have a page called Avalon Memories and we have about 3200 people, and that's a really good core group of users from that time period. So you know, they, they very well might. And in that clip you'll see a picture, uh, you'll

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see Mr. Tracy's house when we visited him, little clip my brothers and I outside his house. And then also in, in the cliff, you see what 67th Street looked like in 68th Street, what it looked like in 1967. And as you, you know, so my father

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shot it going down toward the ocean. Um, for example, I could sit at our kitchen table and look out the window and look to from 68th Street. I look towards 67th and the beach block, and I could see the ocean. I could in the morning the

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sun would shimmer off the ocean that shows you how few houses and how flat it was that I was in the middle of the 68th Street block and could see that. The same thing and when I was at 26th Street, I could see, which I thought

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was very exciting, the sportsman's Tavern neon light would flash and when I was sleeping in bed, I could see from 26th Street, I could see that all the way it's like several blocks away. Sportsman's Tavern a rocking chair is there today. You know, that's how flat

00:29:28.890 - 00:29:47.430

it was. I could, I could see how, I mean, if there was a house here, it was a one floor cottage, right? They weren't 3 stories and what you see today. And then I remember, uh, uh, Edith Greenan, the first woman there, her, she had the

00:29:47.430 - 00:30:04.869

Black Cat, uh, shop gift shop, and uh it was at 65th and Ocean Drive, and I remember there was, you know, between 35th and 80th Street was essentially Baybury and pine trees and a few cottages here and there and I think she put that her gift

00:30:04.869 - 00:30:20.670

shop was an extension to her house, I think. And it was right there, you know, all by itself, you know, out in the middle of nowhere was her blackhat gift shop. Probably didn't do a lot of business. I think it became a real estate agency shortly

00:30:20.670 - 00:30:33.030

after. It was only in business for a few years and then as that and then it was real real estate agency. It wasn't exactly a high traffic. Oh, that's funny. That's great to know. You had to make it a destination if you really wanted to go.

00:30:33.109 - 00:30:49.660

Do you remember going in there at all? Did you went in there. We're going past it and then, um, Mr. Kohler, his son I believe was Al Koller, and he had a house somewhere between 40th and 50th Street, and that would later be built up with

00:30:49.660 - 00:31:08.810

golden homes, little golden hens, but before that happened, that was just, uh, had the tall, it's like tall grass in the Meadowlands, what's it called it's the rags or the cocktails cocktail. And I remember we took a gravel path back to, you know, came off Ocean

00:31:08.810 - 00:31:23.109

Drive and took a gravel path back to his house in the middle of all these cattails. I remember, you know, they were like much higher than I was. I mean, you know, those huge cattails. And I always remember that because it was like you're in the

00:31:23.109 - 00:31:49.410

wilderness kind of thing. I remember that. And then. Um, Um And then the 62 storm, we came down in August after the March 62 storm. And I vividly remember coming in on the causeway and seeing little houses like toys scattered in the meadowland still even after

00:31:49.410 - 00:32:09.219

yeah that was a couple months, yeah, it was months later because, you know, just taking them just floated them all over, over the Meadowlands. Uh, I also remember this is probably before somewhere in the early 60s. My brother Glenn really loved bird bird watching and birds

00:32:09.219 - 00:32:24.069

and stuff, and he would always point out there was a bald eagle nest uh way high up in some pole in the meadowlands, and that was when I remember him saying, you know, the bald eagle might become extinct because DDT, of course, is killing the birds

00:32:24.069 - 00:32:41.599

and everything. I remember that was, he was like, wow, it's really something we got a bald eagle nest here, you know, because. Of the possibility of extinction. And then I remember. Uh, down by 13th Street when we're on the beach, uh, there was a house on

00:32:41.599 - 00:32:57.969

the beach and it was at an angle, just, just where the floods had just left it. And I remember we could see into the, the dining room and the china was still on the cover. I was still staying there. So somehow I don't know how it

00:32:57.969 - 00:33:15.089

survived, but like a fun house you know yeah that's what it was like, but I don't remember those vivid memories and Uh, I was told that our beach house that we lived in was about 4 steps that you walked in the little cottage in 26th Street.

00:33:16.030 - 00:33:35.150

And the water came up over the steps and onto the porch, but there was a little rise just before the door and it didn't come into the house. So it came out it was probably 3 or 4 ft deep there at 26th Street, and I know

00:33:35.150 - 00:33:50.599

it would have flooded ways and would have flooded Coller's Bakery. They still have the water line in Kohler's Bakery. They were where it had flooded like in the front room for a long time. They showed they that's in another, um, oral history too with Bernie and

00:33:50.599 - 00:34:07.810

his wife, and they talked about like the line, the tide line in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was for sure. And then oh the other memories certainly shortly after the 62 storm down in 13th Street. When you know, we thought all the solution to this is

00:34:07.810 - 00:34:28.169

build more bulkheads and rocks instead of building dunes, which in the late 60s we started to do. But in this would have been like 63, 4 or 5, they built uh down around 13th 12th Street. They built bulkheads and they put big rocks and big boulders

00:34:28.169 - 00:34:46.290

in front of them. And today I imagine they're buried deep under those dunes. They're down there today, the man-made dunes, but that's what they, well some of the pictures I gave, you can see those, uh, see the bulk kit. I've seen those and what's interesting too

00:34:46.290 - 00:34:58.449

is when we had that really bad erosion episode a couple winters ago, it was in that area. It was like 15th Street. I remember because those dunes are pretty high and you don't realize that we had our my colleague Sean who's 6'4, stand there and then

00:34:58.449 - 00:35:15.415

you could see how much higher with. You know, it was just a sheer drop off, but yeah, I suppose that's kind of where those boulders were helped form those dunes eventually. Well, they would have gotten buried buried under them right because they would have built the

00:35:15.415 - 00:35:27.429

dunes in front of the bulk right and it was just kind of yeah. And then, uh, another memory of Sullivan's, which used to be on the circle, which is now Veterans Plaza, uh, I remember as a kid going in and buying what was called a Tootsie

00:35:27.429 - 00:35:41.989

toy, and it was a, it was made out of metal. It was a car, it was a metal car. I remember that was very, very cool, because uh I didn't get an allowance. I used to. Scrub the kitchen floor and do different things, and I earned

00:35:41.989 - 00:36:03.120

nickels, dimes, and quarters, and I would put my coins on the counter at Hoy's or at Sullivan's and at my baseball cards or my toys. Um, and then, oh, I remember another memory was going to Springer's ice cream. No. Um, I would later end up working

00:36:03.120 - 00:36:23.169

at Springer's in 1976, and I made Bicentennial ice cream, which is vanilla ice cream with raspberry and blueberry swirl in it. I understand they still do a variation of that, the July 4th or whatever, and I would I would scoop the ice cream. During the day

00:36:23.169 - 00:36:36.120

or at night and then 2 days a week I would make the ice cream and I had somebody else who worked the other 5 days making the ice cream. They only just had one ice cream machine in those days, right? They, they have more today but

00:36:36.120 - 00:36:53.810

um it still is now the same location now the previous Mr. Springer and and Jack Fitzpatrick and uh. I would learn later, a graduate of Penn State and he was on city council and of course he was very active in the Harvard Chamber of Commerce and,

00:36:53.919 - 00:37:11.699

and my brother Glenn during the 60s when he, Jack Fitzpatrick owned it, my brother Glenn managed the uh the uh the store and he hired and supervised, you know, the staff and, and he made the ice cream. During the 22 summers in the 60s and he

00:37:11.699 - 00:37:31.620

lived in the rooms because originally that was a boarding house. My brother lived in the, in the little one of the little rooms upstairs which. Um today of course wouldn't pass any regulation at all, and the, the Humphreys who, who bought it, uh, Barbara and Neil

00:37:31.620 - 00:37:48.620

Humphreys bought it and they use it for you know storage up there for for those. We're renting it out for staff. They, um, oh, did you ride your bike? So when you went over there, the only, well. When we moved to 60s, uh 68th Street, uh,

00:37:48.669 - 00:38:04.310

I had a bicycle and that's how I got around and, uh, um, I, I would go all over, you know, what's called Avalon Manor, that area, and then I go, you know, I went all over in town. I always had a tradition of walking on the

00:38:04.310 - 00:38:17.699

jetty, going to see all city, you know, the facing. It was ironic a few years ago, I, you know, and I took my sons there and we'd always take pictures and walk on the jetty, you know, and there's a sign that, you can't walk on the

00:38:17.699 - 00:38:36.969

jetty, it's dangerous. I thought, wow. All these, all these years it's been so safe, but suddenly over the winter it became really dangerous. Something happened to the jetty, you know, there's always danger involved and, and now of course the lawyers want to see that and the

00:38:36.969 - 00:38:58.590

insurance companies wanna see that sign there. Whenever there's a sign somewhere, you know something happened. That caused the sign. So, um. Um, but going back to Springer's, uh, what we would do, I think 99% of people go to Springer's we get, well, well, you know, an

00:38:58.590 - 00:39:11.219

ice cream cone. Now, when I worked there in '76, we still had table service. You could sit down at the tables, we give you a glass of ice water, you have a glass of water. And you we would sell you a little bag of pretzels to

00:39:11.219 - 00:39:26.570

go with the ice cream because salt and sweet goes together well. And then we had the old glass dishes, so we give you sundays and banana splits and milkshakes and we and we had those. You know, all in the old glass dishes and we would hand

00:39:26.570 - 00:39:41.729

wash them, they were hand washed. Uh, and then of course, as the years went on, that, you know, they no longer have the, the table service and everybody gets ice cream cones. But back in the late 50s and 60s when we were in 26th Street, we

00:39:41.729 - 00:39:59.530

would get in the car and we drive to Springer's. Now, Dune Drive in those days was, was uh just a gravel road with oil, oil truck that would go over it and sort of you sort of got a paved road, but it was very lumpy. And

00:39:59.530 - 00:40:13.600

you bounce along that road and, and of course from 35th to 80th it'd be really dark because pine trees in Baybury and you get to Stone Harbor, which was all developed and then we get to Springer and we didn't get ice cream cones. What we do,

00:40:13.729 - 00:40:30.340

and we still did this in '76, not many people did this, we would weigh the ice cream and put it in a container and we put wax paper over the container. It wasn't really like it is today, prepackaged, you know, ice cream. And we, we, whatever

00:40:30.340 - 00:40:44.120

flavors you want, we, we'd weigh it and that's how you got charged. And so what we do, we, we get our container, the wax paper, and then get back to our house before it melted, and we get back to our house, sit down with this tiny

00:40:44.120 - 00:41:02.320

little. Microscopic quote dining room, I mean, it's a table with chairs squeezed around, and we got the dishes out and we all have our ice cream and dishes. That's great. But that was a very, very big deal. It was a very big deal. Um, When you

00:41:02.320 - 00:41:19.929

did go out to eat because I'm sure you ended up eating in a lot, um, as many people do, but when, when you went out to eat as a family back then, where was your go to place? What we never went out. My, my parents grew

00:41:19.929 - 00:41:41.189

up in the depression and so, you know, they were very, very thrifty. And so, uh, never, we, we never did that. I remember we would pack the car, and I'm talking pack, my older brothers, it was, how do you get 6 people in a '57 Dodge

00:41:41.189 - 00:41:54.350

with wings on the back and later a 60 Oldsmobile. You know, how do you get them all in the car and then everything that they need for two weeks at the shore in the trunk. And it was like, you know, I mean it was like a

00:41:54.350 - 00:42:10.909

scientific equation or how they would and not only did we bring the frying pan or whatever we might need, but we brought, uh, food for a week because we didn't want to spend vacation time you know shopping for 6. So then once during the week I

00:42:10.909 - 00:42:23.399

would go with my parents into Cape May Court House to the Acme. And get the, you know, food we needed for the next week and then on the way back, I think we would come up Route 9 and there used to be a lot of produce

00:42:23.399 - 00:42:41.000

stands and we'd stop at the produce stands and get the fresh jersey tomatoes and the and the peppers and the watermelon and the corn on the cob, and we, we get all the fresh, fresh, you know, vegetables and so forth and eggplant. I remember my mother

00:42:41.000 - 00:43:00.500

made delicious fried eggplant and uh. And we bring that back and so. Uh, our tasty freeze was there Avalon Freeze, but we, for whatever reason we never remember them making it, but I don't ever remember actually buying at least to make these, you know, banana splits

00:43:00.500 - 00:43:20.209

which were a big deal back then. It was called Tasty Freeze. Now it's Avalon Freeze and. Um, but, um, now the places for food, I I remember is Kohler's Bakery in Springer's and Those were two luxuries. There I do remember there was a place that made

00:43:20.209 - 00:43:52.330

Italian rolls and it was a bakery next to Hoy's. I remember that, but. Yeah, that's, that's that's, that's about all, um. Oh, this was, um. Oh, this is a memory, um. When around 1967, 1968 or 1969. Uh, paper peddler opens in '68, so this would have

00:43:52.330 - 00:44:08.459

been 68, 69, or 70. I used to come down my bicycle, and besides, you know, driving around, I would go to the paper peddler, get a newspaper. And then I go to Kohler's and get some cream filled donuts and sticky buns or crumb buns. And, and

00:44:08.459 - 00:44:23.485

so I have this. I didn't have a basket on my bike, so I was sort of holding onto this and driving my bicycle up Dune drive. Well, Dune drive in those days was still lumpy in my 60s. I remember I fell off my bike once. And

00:44:23.485 - 00:44:35.774

I didn't fall hard, you know, it was just, you know, I was really going slow. I remember somebody pulled over and said, you're right, and I remember I said, no, OK, you know, but I remember that's how poor the road was that you couldn't control your

00:44:35.774 - 00:44:59.159

bicycle going at a very low speed. And uh and and balance your your um. Your pastries from Coller's bakery. Now this I told this to Benita a few years ago and and I saw on Facebook you had an article which actually verified my memory, which is,

00:44:59.330 - 00:45:12.360

uh, at the when we would come back from the beach, so we would go to the beach in the morning, we come back, the whistle would blow. We had a siren would blow at noon, so you know it was lunchtime, so we go home and have

00:45:12.360 - 00:45:27.120

lunch. And then uh we have a little nap time in there. I think my parents needed some nap time. And then they thought we did too, but they did. We had a little, and then we'd be back at the beach at like 2:30, 3 o'clock and

00:45:27.120 - 00:45:41.610

we stayed till about 6 or so. And then, and then somebody would take turns who hangs up the swimsuits on the line, right? And then I was always the one who would go around and get the Philadelphia Bulletin for my father. And of course, I would

00:45:41.610 - 00:46:01.080

read the sports section on the way back as I walked, but all I had to do was walk down 26th Dune Drive. Turn left, go down the 25th Street, cross the street, and in that block, going toward 24th was this little store that sold you little

00:46:01.080 - 00:46:22.169

items, uh. You know, things for the beach, some comic books, and I get the newspaper. But then on my own time in the afternoon or sometime I'd go and get penny candy. One side was just penny candy and and the little woman came, she was watching

00:46:22.169 - 00:46:35.790

the soap operas and she would, she'd hear the little door, the swing door had a little screen door had a little bell on it, you know, I hear the little bell ringing and she'd come out and wait on me and I got my. Mint leaf candy,

00:46:35.939 - 00:46:56.959

mint leaf candies and chocolates or whatever you get single ones with penny candy and recently I saw your article in the newspaper article it said that it was part of the building. was part of Ms Electricians Electrical and I believe that was between 24th and 25th

00:46:56.959 - 00:47:14.739

Street and she was in the second part of the building and so I was like, OK, because that was, that was where I would I go. Um, Now, since I didn't have any money, uh. And I had, I was a huge Phillies fan. I had to

00:47:14.739 - 00:47:28.750

know the Phillies scores. So what I would do is wake up and go when we go to Kohler's in the morning and to get, you know, I get some sticky buns, crumb buns. But I go to the Avalan supermarket and I didn't have money to buy

00:47:28.750 - 00:47:45.060

a newspaper and they had the Philadelphia Inquirer, which was the #2 paper, and you know, nearly everybody read the bullet and, you know, that was the popular evening paper and the Inquirer didn't have sections that where you could easily find things like the bulletin did, so

00:47:45.060 - 00:48:00.100

I had to like quickly go in and like quickly flip through it and see what the score was. Sometimes the manager would come by and say I needed to buy the paper right but but I didn't have the money, so I remember, I remember that and

00:48:00.100 - 00:48:15.570

then of course then I would, I would read about my Phillies game on the way I'd walk slowly back to the, to the house in the afternoon after I bought the paper from my father. Then my mother would send me on errands to the post office,

00:48:15.780 - 00:48:33.090

and I would walk from 26 to. What is it? 32nd or the 30, yeah, right on the corner of 32nd Street where it still is, and I remember when we came down that summer I was like, whoa, a new post office 1960, and this is the

00:48:33.090 - 00:48:47.530

day when hardly anything was new. You didn't have new building in Avalon. I mean any time you saw something new it was a very big deal. And um And so I would go get stamps or mail things for my mother and I, I would walk up

00:48:47.530 - 00:49:05.919

20 up Dune Drive, and part of that was not, there wasn't a paved sidewalk and so you would just be on sand and gravel, you just walk along and then part of that there was a little miniature golf course along that stretch between 26 and. I

00:49:06.659 - 00:49:23.699

I don't know it was 30th Street or something and then also Uncle Bill's was there, which was a very small concrete block building and Nancy Lynn's candies were there and there was also a small, small building, and that was about the only thing that was commercial

00:49:23.699 - 00:49:46.860

on that side of Dune Drive in that stretch. It was about all there was there. Um, I remember with the I believe the gentleman is still has the screen business he's still here is still here. uh uh I was reflecting, I think there are only 5

00:49:46.860 - 00:50:10.790

businesses. That are still here that were here in the 1950s. And there's Hoy's, the Avalon Supermarket, Coller's Bakery. Uh, Richardson's screens. And um, well, the rocking chair, which used to be sports and tavern. And they're the only ones. Well, the rocking chair came later. I forget,

00:50:11.199 - 00:50:30.189

60s or 70s or something or Sportsman's Tower. But the mosquitoes were really bad and you would go, you know, get, you have the kits you could get to, you know, patch your screen, it was a little hole instead of buying the whole screen. Which people wouldn't

00:50:30.189 - 00:50:50.000

think of doing back in those days, uh, but I remember my father standing on his bed and swatting the mosquitoes on the ceiling. I remember that because those guys were everywhere. Funny memory. You mentioned baseball and in your other oral history, um, that you graciously provided

00:50:50.000 - 00:51:03.479

us in 2018, um, you did mention the 8th Street recreation Grounds and it was just sort of a sandy field and there was a ball field there. Do you remember much about that at all? Did they have games there then way back in the earlier 1900s

00:51:03.479 - 00:51:16.760

there was a baseball team and there was a lot of activity there, and I just wondered, was it more of a dirt sandlo when you were? All I can remember is just sand and it was flat and I, I think there was a baseball field there,

00:51:16.840 - 00:51:34.750

but it was. I mean, if it was, it wasn't much of anything. And Phil Mattalucci's cement company was down there and there was so much open space. I just remember it was just so flat and, and there's just not nothing around and the Hunt Brothers Circus,

00:51:35.219 - 00:51:51.800

the only circus I ever saw, they was right there. And for years I had the brochure. I should have saved that one from the Hunt Brothers Circus, um. Uh, and, uh, they saw the elephants and the lions and everything, and it was, that was a huge

00:51:51.800 - 00:52:05.120

event. How long did they stay? Was it about 2 days or was it longer? It was probably just a few days, I think. I don't think it was very long. And it happened to be the two weeks we were here in late August. I met somebody

00:52:05.120 - 00:52:22.520

recently who said she remembered she was up on a house was up on your 80th Street, and she said she saw a circus up there, but I didn't. I don't, there was some, I mean, where those motels were at one point, they sort of plowed that

00:52:22.520 - 00:52:34.979

down. It was seemed to be flat up there for a period of time. Yeah, there's an open space too that's that houses the Stone Harbor wreck and traditionally like that might have belonged to Stone Harbor, kind of like the wreck fields out in 8th Street have

00:52:34.979 - 00:52:50.820

always belonged to the borough. So it's like if Stone Harbor still owned that maybe it was there. It's now their wreck. Uh, maybe Avalon had some, I, I can't remember that, but she saw a circus at that place. Um, do you remember if they came in

00:52:50.820 - 00:53:01.459

trucks, I guess I mean the railroad wasn't here anymore, so they didn't come in by train. They must have trucked all the animals and do you remember anything about seeing the? Yeah, I just remember they had some, I just remember, I think there was, you know,

00:53:01.580 - 00:53:22.399

a big like tractor trailer van, but I can't remember anything else. You know what the animals were were in. Um, Oh, here's another memory of, I believe it's it's First Avenue, right? The street that runs parallel to the ocean. Between 16th and 17th Street. And I

00:53:22.399 - 00:53:39.840

last looked there was still a small one floor cottage that faces Avalon and there's a water tank or there was a water tank there. I don't know if that's there anymore, between 16th and 17th. Yeah, there is, there's another one because that's the borough of the

00:53:39.840 - 00:53:59.159

public works lot. So that's the other water tower water tower and there was this 1950s 1. Well, if you can imagine as you face, uh, if you're on 1st Avenue and you're looking toward the beach, 16th and 17th Street did not go through to the beach.

00:53:59.409 - 00:54:18.600

That was all just Baybury and Dune grass, and there was nothing there. There was nothing there except the water tank in this little 1950s, probably built early 1950s, mid-50s house next to the water tank to the right of that tank. Uh, to the right of that

00:54:18.600 - 00:54:37.060

house and that tank was an old Victorian home, uh, with cedar shakes, and I think that was at 17th and Avalon and, and that, that was all there was there. There's nothing else and for some reason I don't know why that section. It's probably the last

00:54:37.060 - 00:54:54.419

beach, you know, block to ever get developed, but this, you know, because the streets never went we didn't go, you know, there weren't any streets, you know, they didn't go through. So let's see. Another memory I have was Memorial Day in the late 1960s or early

00:54:54.419 - 00:55:11.709

1970s. Our neighbor across the street in 68th Street was Bob Bruce, and he retired here to Avalon and he ended up getting involved with the homeowners association, and then he ended up getting elected as a commissioner. And he was the commissioner at the time in the

00:55:11.709 - 00:55:30.370

early 70s that voted to have beach tags, which of course is very controversial because we all had free beaches and we all liked our free beaches. But I talked to Bob Bob Bruce about that, and you know they did need some money to clean the beaches

00:55:30.370 - 00:55:49.050

and to pay the lifeguards, and they felt in 1972 I think it is they, they said we had to have so. But they had a Memorial Day parade. This is probably the early 70s or 72. And um I went to it and the parade went maybe

00:55:49.050 - 00:56:08.850

from the firehouse down Dune Drive to the circle, a very, very modest parade. He, he was in one of the convertibles in this frame. And um and we had a ceremony down at the circle now at Veterans Plaza and then you went to the movie theater,

00:56:08.889 - 00:56:25.949

the boardwalk uh where the pier is and the lifeguards uh took a wreath out in the water and laid it in the water and that was, that was in somewhere in the late 60s early 70s. Now another memory was in the winter we came down here

00:56:25.949 - 00:56:44.189

and it was an exceptionally cold winter and the foam came onto the beach and froze and we had a 2 ft ice wall and we walked along the ice wall on top of the ice wall. It was frozen solid from all the foam that frozen. And

00:56:44.189 - 00:57:13.189

I, I remember that that was very unique. I don't know that. Then once we took a walk after dinner around our neighborhood in Twenty-sixth Street, and we walked down Ocean Drive. Um, And we came across. It's somewhere on 24th, 23rd, 22nd. Between there and 21st Street.

00:57:14.070 - 00:57:33.360

was um Jim Leahy, he was a sign painter. And he had a little studio and he had it was glass that faced Ocean Drive, and I remember my father and my brothers and I were just sort of mesmerized by this person making these signs by hand.

00:57:33.409 - 00:57:46.889

You could see him in there. You could see it's like a studio. It was like this huge picture window. And then I remember we ended up I guess knocking on the window and talking to him, but I mean, I was like, I mean, his sense of

00:57:46.889 - 00:58:05.459

detail and how. Slowly and meticulously and carefully he worked. I always remember that and he would later make, you know, the welcome the Avalon signs and, and so forth and made all kinds of signs. Um, and of course, I remember coming into town on 21st Street

00:58:05.459 - 00:58:19.080

and coming over the bridge and you hear the buzz with the metal when you cross, you know, that part, and when I heard the buzz, I knew we were in Avalon, you know, it's like we're, we're here for vacation. And um and I always remember the

00:58:19.080 - 00:58:34.290

bridge opening even for the smallest little sailboat because it was so close, it wasn't that far off the water, you know, and so I mean if you had a motorboat, you could get underneath it, but pretty much everything else you had to open the bridge and

00:58:34.290 - 00:58:51.729

of course the traffic would back up and I can't imagine uh with people having very little patience these days uh that would create a major. Public disturbance today in Avalon if you had a bridge that opened and oh I have to wait in line for 5

00:58:51.729 - 00:59:13.780

minutes or something to get across the bridge. Yeah, for that little sailboat, you know, it's like. I probably would be too popular today. Then I remember in August of '76. Uh, I had Um, I stayed at our house in May and early June and then we

00:59:13.780 - 00:59:30.290

rented the house. So then I was working at Springer's and so I rented a somewhere I think on the 70th Street area beach block. Somebody had a like a little boarding house and I rented a room in the basement. And I had some kind of flu

00:59:30.290 - 00:59:45.929

or some, I don't know, I wasn't feeling very well. And I open, I turn on the radio in the morning, my little transistor radio, and um I hear a report of a hurricane. I'm like, what a hurricane? And then I flipped the radio station, maybe I

00:59:45.929 - 01:00:01.530

didn't hear, right? And they're also talking about a hurricane, and it's gonna come to Avalon, it's gonna come 50 miles off the coast. And I'm in a, you know, Basement apartment on the beachfront and I was like and I called a friend who lived in, in,

01:00:01.570 - 01:00:19.600

um, near Beasley's Point on Route 9 and, and she came and got me and uh that morning of course people were taking boats out of the water and people were scrambling around. And uh and of course, other people thought, oh, you know, why should I leave,

01:00:19.729 - 01:00:33.060

you know, or whatever, you know. It's it's, it's, it's not gonna be a direct hit, you know, well, you know how hurricanes have changed. They seem to have a mind of their own, right? So, you know, they say it's gonna, I will say 50 miles off

01:00:33.060 - 01:00:51.709

the coast, but you know, never know that's still very close. So then, uh, and then I remember when the hurricane hit, it, it was torrential rain from 3 p.m. to 1 a.m. in the morning. And the lights dimmed. We almost lost lights in the house there

01:00:51.709 - 01:01:09.729

on Route Route 9. But we didn't, didn't lose power. We had the candles ready. We were, we were ready, but I never seen such strong wind and strong rain and just hour after hour after hour. It was, you know, pretty impressive, and that's just, that's 50

01:01:09.729 - 01:01:31.429

miles off the coast. it's like, yeah, be here for a direct hit. Yeah, that's as close as I, I wanna come to it. Um, Uh, let's see, so those. All the memories there. And then another memory I have was um The callers, uh, when they retired,

01:01:32.000 - 01:01:48.879

my, my parents, uh, knew them. Uh, for a number of years and, uh, as I said in that other recording, we used to visit Mr. Koller who was baking, um, so they retired and they had a home on Route 9 in Swington and we visited them

01:01:48.879 - 01:02:03.780

one morning we're just sitting there and just having a nice chat, and I remember Mrs. Culler saying, Would you like some sticky buns? I was like, oh wow. Well, my father had a sweet tooth. He didn't have to ask him twice if he wanted. And I

01:02:03.780 - 01:02:22.879

just remember they were the most delicious, you know, warm, fresh from the oven, you know, sticky buns you ever ate in your life. I always remember that. And then, and then I remember I. Uh, of course, Bernie, I would visit Bernie, um, um, who came after

01:02:22.879 - 01:02:38.580

Mr. Koller, uh, in the back bakery as well, but my brother and I, I have sort of faint memories because he, he immigrated from Germany as I believe Mr. Kohler did as well, and I believe I remember they could speak German to each other while they

01:02:38.580 - 01:03:01.510

were, they were baking there. By Mr. Coler across, you know, taught him all the tricks of the trade, and he kept going and doing a great job with him. Um, Let's see Oh, another memory was my brother Glenn was, uh, he, he loved bird watching and

01:03:01.510 - 01:03:18.399

binoculars and all this. And so this was a really big deal for him. I wasn't such a bird watcher. I was, I wasn't a fan of that. Um, but he would rent Sullivan's down on them when they were on the circle, and then later when they

01:03:18.399 - 01:03:40.360

moved on to further Upton Drive. Uh, they would rent bicycles, and so we rented bicycles from Solomon and get up at like 5 or something in the morning. Because that's the best bird watching time is sunrise, evidently, and go from Twenty-sixth Street and ride our rented

01:03:40.360 - 01:04:07.060

bicycles all the way to the Stone Harbor Bird Sanctuary. And, and use her binoculars to watch them. So, um, Um, Yeah, so that's that are those are. Uh, Those are my happy memories of, of, of Avalon, and I do, you know, I told you about the

01:04:07.060 - 01:04:20.600

lifeguards saving these people's lives and and the the colors in those days were red and white and they had a red Jeep. You know, no air conditioned fancy vehicles, so it was an open-air red Jeep and it would drive by and that would at 5 o'clock

01:04:20.600 - 01:04:36.709

and then that's when their time was, was up for the day. But um yeah, they've always done such a great job. And has such a great record. Yeah, I was gonna say, you know, Avalon, I think is the safest beach. They, they, they consistently win the

01:04:36.709 - 01:04:52.270

South Jersey Live championships and I, I, I, I feel very safe when I'm on the Avalon beaches. I I remember we used to go to the, they had a contest between Sea Isleston Harbor and Avalon between the lifeguards, and we used to go to those contests

01:04:52.270 - 01:05:11.469

and see them swim and row. I remember, remember them. I have a letter here from uh Murray Wolf, the captain of the Patrol somebody had uh wanted to uh apply to be a. A beach tag inspector and this was their their invitation to to do that.

01:05:11.590 - 01:05:33.729

Oh, that's great. And I have some original Gigher Gallagher's liquor store coasters. That's fantastic and I have pictures. Uh, from the Philadelphia bulletin of the 62 storm that I'll, I'll give to the, yeah, that's great. That's one of those papers that never digitized really. It's hard

01:05:33.729 - 01:05:51.129

to get things online, so yeah, I, I tore out my scrapbook. I made that when I was 9 years old, so you can see my 9 year old writing. And this is, uh, this is, I don't know why I have this, the North Wildwood Bicentennial commemorative

01:05:51.129 - 01:06:14.600

book. OK. And the North Wildwood Historical Society would need that, but no, just a lot of happy memories here and Avalon was just a much simpler place and totally, you know, totally different than it is today. Yeah, very, very different. It's amazing how it changes, you

01:06:14.600 - 01:06:30.120

know, and I, but it's, it's important that you're sharing your stories because the people who, who come along who've never experienced that Avalon need to hear about that, you know, they'll have their own version of Avalon because they never knew it, but it's important to share

01:06:30.120 - 01:06:53.040

these stories. And I thought it was fortunate. Mayor Armacost and Commissioner Bob Bruce in the 70s had the foresight to uh create the Bay Park. Which would of course been totally developed and uh this the park at 777 71st Street so you could see that undeveloped

01:06:53.040 - 01:07:12.959

area of the park that's what all of Avalon looked like from 80th to 35th Street with a few, few um exceptions. Um, and, um, yeah, it was a. It was, you know, and, and because of the history of Avalon, it was very, uh, you know, had

01:07:12.959 - 01:07:32.879

little periods of development, but then the Depression came along in World War II and Avalon just sort of, you know, in the 1950s and early 1960s just sort of was way beyond, you know, way behind the development of Stone Harbor, uh and then, and then. After

01:07:32.879 - 01:07:50.370

the 62 storm, it started to, you know, develop, uh, we're also, I think Avalon was fortunate that the environmental movement came along in the late 60s and 70s because in the late 60s, they built the fingers and hundreds of those dump trucks came in with sand

01:07:50.370 - 01:08:07.729

and made all those artificial, you know, uh land out out in the meadowlands. Uh, which of course, you know, uh, you know, then the New Jersey state law came along and said, you know, you can't, you can't be doing that, destroying the, the meadowlands. I, I

01:08:07.729 - 01:08:27.200

remember before that happened, this is more early 60s, mid 60s. My, my mother was upset that they were filling in land next to Ocean Drive and building houses next to Ocean Drive because. In many places the marshland came right up to Ocean Drive. It came right

01:08:27.200 - 01:08:43.080

up to the like you see there at Bay Park come right up and, and so they were filling all that in. You know, you know, she was thinking, well, it's, you know, probably not, not so great an idea of what that's that's what happened. Then we

01:08:43.080 - 01:09:01.720

had the fingers and then of course Baybury Drive, they plowed down those high dunes unfortunately community was pretty much in an uproar about that and then that stopped that from happening. Is that why there's still that remnant of dunes on Baybury right there just a little

01:09:01.720 - 01:09:17.430

bit because it just sort of halted. Yeah, yeah, that was that those high dunes came all the, you know, there was no Baybury Drive. They were just all high dunes, and they were ready to plow so if Avalon had been developed earlier, it could have been

01:09:17.430 - 01:09:46.359

a whole lot more destruction, you know, environmental destruction. Fortunately didn't happen. But uh Uh, another memory, um, I was a neighbor. He lives up the street on the beach block of uh of on Avalon 6 68th Street. His name was Mr. Nicolotti, and I understand his

01:09:46.359 - 01:10:07.009

grandson still lives here and Avalon may live in the house on 68th Street. I, I never, I never knew his children or his grandchildren, but he had a little cottage, uh, in 1967. Right there on 68th Street and he told us that he bought uh in

01:10:07.009 - 01:10:23.569

those days you could buy little lots and today a whole lot was two little lots, like two little lots and in the late 40s or early 50s, he, he would buy and he ended up buying four of these little lots today which would equal two lots.

01:10:24.209 - 01:10:41.660

And then in the early 70s, he sold one of the lots and built himself a nice, nice modern house. But he had a nice little cottage there and it was in, you know, it was just You know, in the dunes kind of thing. I remember when

01:10:41.660 - 01:10:56.069

we would drive by there in the 50s, that house would be there. I think it was a little sandy road because the 68 didn't really go to into the beach and there was, there was another little cottage across from him in '67 that was all that

01:10:56.069 - 01:11:16.799

was there and then and somewhere in the early 70s, he's, you know, he sold that and that house is, there's two houses there that look. Pretty identical. They're still there, and I believe I told one of his, his, his grandson. I understand Jim Tracy's grandson still

01:11:17.140 - 01:11:33.930

still lives here and was a manager, a wiferiar or something possibly very well might be. I, I don't I'm not personally familiar. I'm not, I don't know. You know, uh the details just a little. Oral history I've heard, which may or may not be accurate, but,

01:11:34.319 - 01:11:56.390

but, um, but Jim Tracy was a very nice, very nice gentleman and uh. And so was Mr. Nicolotti, just, you know, happy memories of folks that were. Very down to earth and very, you know, much simpler, quieter Avalon. In those days, now the prices at Avalon

01:11:56.390 - 01:12:14.189

Supermarket always have been high, so that's one thing that hasn't changed, but, uh, and hoys is pretty much hoy, and, you know, has, you know, more games and board games and puzzles and toys and stuff and some of them, but basically the same and Avalon Fris

01:12:14.189 - 01:12:33.209

is used to be tasty free it's basically the same, so. You know, a few things. It's a couple, not too many, and I'm glad the Kroler's Bakery now has a new owner and it survived there on 24th Street, so and they have the secret recipes of

01:12:33.209 - 01:12:53.069

how to make those sticky bus and cream doughnuts, but nobody else has. So a couple of things from the past, but other than that, it's Ion's changed a lot. It's a lot. Thank you for sharing your stories with us. We very much appreciate it. Is there

01:12:53.069 - 01:13:13.770

anything else before we sign off that you wanted to maybe mention? No, I think that's That's pretty much it. Well, the happy memory I do, um. Happy memories of the paper peddler from 1968 on, uh, and got to know Craig, um, and, and Debbie, and that

01:13:13.770 - 01:13:37.189

was, I bring my two little, my sons, Greg and Matthew there. Um, our sons and just, you know, buy comic books or. You know, penny, tricklets, gum, you know, 2 in a little package, uh, buy a pinky rubber ball, buy some newspapers, some magazines. Yeah, that

01:13:37.189 - 01:13:56.540

one was, that was another happy memory. Oh, another memory was of going back to the Penny candy story on Dune Drive. 11 summer, uh, I didn't, um, I didn't remember to bring my books because reading was really important in my family. I had to bring books

01:13:56.540 - 01:14:09.689

on vacation to read. You had to be reading all summer. I didn't bring my books and we didn't know about the library. There was a library here somewhere, but it was so, so low key and was so small. I had no idea that it existed. So

01:14:09.689 - 01:14:29.700

we went to that little, little penny candy store and. And we found uh two classic illustrated comic books. One was uh Treasure Island, one was Robinson Caruso, and the other was Jungle Books. Parents bought this for me so I could have some reading to do during,

01:14:29.709 - 01:14:49.930

during my vacation. So I remember that. But, but a lot of, but you know, from, you know, the paper peddler with a lot of happy memories visiting Craig. And uh telling stories and Craig's memories. as well Oh, that was fun and then going to Tortilla

01:14:49.930 - 01:15:05.729

Flats, which was fun. April and I were there. I had opened in '83. We went there for lunch when it first opened. Wondered if it'd ever survived and you know, and it did. It was the first Mexican restaurant in Cape May County, really, really, it was

01:15:05.729 - 01:15:26.899

delicious food. It was delicious and we always would come back to that and also Nemo's. That there's 3 stores right together. Oh like when I brought my sons here, they were, you know, cause that was more. 1980s and 1990s and so forth. We always visit those

01:15:26.910 - 01:15:43.430

those places, so. Yeah, so those are. or some, some of the some of the memories. Well thank you for the opportunity to share. Very much appreciate it.