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If you could please just say your name out loud for the tape. I'm Jennifer Bailey. I am an Avalon resident and have been one for quite some time. I grew up here, went through school here, went away to college, came back and raised a family here. So it's great. It's a great place to live and a great place to be.

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So you're very qualified to speak on this topic. Not that, you know, sometimes people don't want to answer the question, which is okay, but can you tell us when you were born? I was born in 1969. I was not actually born in New Jersey. I was born in Pennsylvania. My father grew up in Chester. My mother grew up in West Chester.

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And my father summered in Stone Harbor. So when we first moved down here, I was about 18 months old and we lived in Stone Harbor for a couple of years. And then moved to Avalon when I was, I guess when I was four or five. It was before I started school because I never went to Stone Harbor School. I only went to Avalon School.

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Because the kindergarten was in Avalon School at the time. It was not, now it's, you know, well now the whole school is shared. But for a time, the kindergarten was the only grade that was shared. But when I went to school, it was not. Okay. Where was the Avalon School when you went there?

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Where it currently is attached to the library. Okay. Yeah, I couldn't remember the exact year that it moved from 26th Street. It probably wasn't that much, it was probably a pretty new school at that point, right? Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm not really sure about that.

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But yes, it was, you know, it was the, obviously, it's the part of the school is still the same. The one hallway, you know, obviously you have like the art room and the music room and the, obviously the library. But like that one hallway where the classrooms are, that is the core building that has been there since I went there. So.

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So you mentioned your mom and your dad. Yes. Did you have some siblings? No siblings.

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No siblings, just you. So who did you play with or who do you remember like going to school with as a young kid? I had a, I still talk to them all. Rachel Schultz came in first grade.

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Heidi Bischoff was kindergarten with me. Her family owned Kohler's Bakery. Have you talked to Bert? No, but he would be a good one.

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He is a good one, yeah. He was a teacher down in Lower Township. Okay. So, Suzy Staubert, Jen Ripp.

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The Ripps were three girls and she was, Jen was the youngest and she had two older sisters. They all grew up here. They actually grew up on 38th Street and one block over. I mean, there's lots.

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Will O'Connor, Steve Samuelson, Kyle Gallagher, Matt Kacenza. I don't know if you're familiar with any of the Kacenzas. No. Their house, their parents both passed away recently and their house just came down on Bayberry Drive.

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Oh, that's too bad. Judy Ehrenberg who is the Spanish teacher in Stone Harbor is a Kacenza. There was I think six kids. Okay.

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Matt was the youngest and then he's got all his kids, his siblings are older. Cool, maybe I'll track them down. Yes, I could give you some numbers definitely. Drew Buchanan, he's older than me from Circle Pizza.

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Oh, you know what? I didn't even think of that. He's got a big family too. Okay.

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And he's the youngest of his family. Zorowski, Scott Zorowski from the Princeton and Liz, I think they both went through Avalon School. Obviously, the McCorstons. Okay.

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They're different ages. Obviously, they're not all my age. The first ones I gave you were mostly my age. So what did you guys do?

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I've talked to other people and I understand there was significantly less action or things happening in town. So what did you guys do for fun? As kids, when we were young kids, school age, grade school age I would say, there was a lot of stuff that went on at the Rec. There was Avalon at the Community Hall, which is virtually unchanged since then too.

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There was roller skating in there. There was a girls' basketball team. I did not play. There was free activity, which they still do on Friday nights for kids.

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You go in and there'd be games or whatever. Nowadays, the sports are huge. People are involved in Cape Express. It's not really a community run.

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We didn't have any of that then. We played man hunt in the dunes. That kind of stuff. Before, we were not allowed in the dunes.

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It was always a very safe community. You could be around town doing whatever. Not that we really hung out around town because there was no place to hang out. Not in the wintertime anyway.

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When we got to be teenagers, it was the bongo room. The teen dances at the bongo room. Then you'd go. It was three nights a week.

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There was a live band. It was eight to midnight. At midnight, everybody would walk to Circle Pizza. I think about the time I spent walking barefoot all over town.

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It was crazy. We'd go to Circle Pizza and then we'd get home after that. The movie theater was on the boardwalk. We could go up there and see a movie.

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I remember watching Star Wars in there when I was ten. It was the first movie I went to see. Obviously, the beach, the bay. We lived on 48th Street when I was five, six, and seven.

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Then my parents moved out to Fifth Avenue. We were on the bay. I was always in the bay swimming. We had a little beach.

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When I was a kid, we didn't actually go to the beach that much. My parents both worked. I usually had a sitter that stayed with me. Sometimes my friends would come over and we would just hang out there.

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The kid would be in the bay. That kind of stuff. The great thing about being here is that you can start to work at a young age. I think I was fourteen when I got my first job at Hoys, five and ten.

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I worked there for years, all through college and even after college for a bit. That's cool. We all did. My girlfriend, Rachel Schultz, she worked at Keene's Pharmacy for years.

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She worked at Kohler's and then worked at Keene's. I think, to me, it's still very much the ethic of people who live around here. I didn't grow up in Avalon, but I grew up in Gamma County and I worked at the Concord my whole life every summer. Then it was weird because I went to college and no one had had a summer job.

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I was kind of like everyone I ever knew in my whole life had a summer job. It's a big difference. If you grow up away from the shore, it's harder to get hired. They don't hire until you're sixteen or seventeen.

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I see that even now, even today. Kids that live closer to Philadelphia can't get a job that young. People won't hire them. That is a great thing.

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Even before that you could babysit. I didn't do too much of that, but some of my friends did. I think the biggest difference is the size of the school. I had twenty kids in my class.

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Eighteen to twenty all the way through. From kindergarten all the way through to eighth grade. They all lived here. It was not like there was a tuition program to pull kids in.

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They all lived here. The classes ahead of me and behind me all had the same amount. That's just not the case anymore. I got to thinking about what did all those parents do?

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People say there's no jobs in Cape Mead County and it's hard to make a living. A lot of them were police officers and contractors. Still jobs that are around today, but it's just more difficult. Everything is more expensive.

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I think you probably have an interesting perspective because now you're raising kids in Avalon. Absolutely. Do you feel like their childhood experiences resemble yours in some ways? Yes, I do.

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I feel like there was more... We got them involved in... They certainly played rec sports, but for my youngest son, who's now a freshman in high school,

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even the rec sports started to fall apart in the last two years. He was seventh and eighth grade. There was no soccer team because there weren't enough resident kids. That's a county rule.

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They can't play from other districts. That was hard for him. He was not happy. He loved playing that rec soccer.

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Then when it disappeared, he was upset. That part was not great. But they've all worked. My oldest has double jobs.

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I told you she was in Spain for the semester, and she paid for that herself. That's great. We were paying the tuition and helping out with some of it,

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but she did the bulk of it herself because she was able to work two jobs last summer and save nine grand to go. That's great.

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That part is awesome. Most kids can't do that. I would say yes. I would say that it was similar.

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It's still a very safe community. No doubt they can just go out on their bikes. My husband was a police officer in Stone Harbor. We certainly know most of the police in Avalon and Stone Harbor,

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so you always felt like even if there was a problem, somebody gets to you right away. You talked about as a teenager going to the bongo room on the pier. Yes.

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It seems like maybe there are not really places like that. Where do your kids go? That's true. That is a good point.

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My youngest son is very much into sports and spends a lot of time on the field and biking around town, and he thinks it's cool to look at the expensive cars. Him and his friend go around,

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and they take pictures of the expensive cars that come in on the weekends. In the summer, it's ridiculous. It's like an exotic car show in some ways. I guess we were always good about giving them rides

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where they needed to be to meet with their friends. There is not a ton to do. I guess they did spend some time in Stone Harbor and 96th Street, but not a ton.

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Some kids, that is all they do. Because my husband was a police officer, he even had a real problem with that because he was policing it down there for a long time.

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He didn't want our kids doing that because it seems they just get into some sort of trouble. I'm not saying that they never did it, but they certainly didn't do it five, six, seven nights a week

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like a lot of the kids do. We were always good about having kids at our house. We have a fenced-in backyard that they could hang at. But it is hard.

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It's funny because my daughter couldn't wait to get out to go to college. Couldn't wait, couldn't wait, couldn't wait. Got away and couldn't wait to come back.

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I know a lot of kids, like my friend Rachel, she has two older siblings and they did the same thing. They could not wait to get out of Avalon, Cape May County.

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Now they do anything to be able to afford something and be able to come back and, I don't necessarily live here, but afford a vacation house here.

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You don't appreciate it until you really go away. I'll rewind us a little again. You talked about bars and social places. What about stores or other kinds of businesses?

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Where did your family shop when you were a kid? We didn't have wawa for a very long time. There was no convenience stores. I guess we spent a lot of time,

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I remember BJ's Pizza, because they were open year-round. That's where the Shore Break is now. We would spend time in there just eating.

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That was probably when I was older, when I was a teenager driving. When we were younger, like grocery shopping,

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I remember my mom going to shop rite in Rio Grande. I don't think there was one in Sea Isle at the time. There was stuff in Courthouse. There was Super Fresh

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and there was something else out there. But there wasn't anything on the island. There wasn't anything on the island. It was year-round now.

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For a long time, we went to East Keene's Pharmacy because there was not really a chain drugstore close by. Dr. Garcia was who my childhood doctor was.

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A lot of people on the island went to him. Dr. Robinson was my dentist. That was local, but there was not much.

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Hoys was open, obviously. Sullivan's was open. People talk about I know the lunch counter at Sullivan's was a big hangout type thing.

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I remember being in there once in a while, but not a ton. Obviously, we hung out before we could drive and stuff. We hung out at the arcades in town too,

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but I don't remember them being open in the winter so much either. It was more like in the summer. There was Sparky's Arcade on 21st Street. There was another arcade in next to the paper peddler

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and I cannot remember the name of it for the life of me. It was small. Right in there. I guess we hung out in town in the summertime.

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Like I said, Sparky's, get ice cream, pizza, that kind of stuff. Do you remember any events? Oh, the circus. Oh, the circus.

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The circus comes to mind. When I was a kid, young kid, they would come in and set up down at the field at 8th Street, 12th Street there.

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That was a big deal. I remember there was a Brownie Girl Scout Troop who would always march in the Memorial Day Parade. I have a picture of that somewhere.

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I'd have to dig that one up. That's really old. I was probably about eight or nine in that picture. The picture was taken actually right up here

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because the scout leader lived at the corner of 40th Street. This was all vacant. There was nothing. When my father decided to move down here,

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I guess he secured a job before he moved. He worked for Sturdy Savings for years. His family thought he was nuts. Everybody in Pennsylvania was like,

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you're crazy to get out there. There's nothing there. What are you going to do for X, Y, and Z? He was like, well, they had summer here.

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He was like, we're going to make a go of it and see. They did and it all panned out. It's cool. We have some photos of the circus.

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It's hard to even imagine anymore. Elephants on the field. It's crazy. There was a skating rink that was a hangout too.

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I didn't really hang out there, but they had an ice skating rink down there on that field. It was never on ice. I guess it was for street hockey if you wanted to,

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but that was down on that field too for a long time. Right in the middle of it, it was weird. Kids used to hang out there and mess around. Kickball around or play hockey or whatever.

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That's cool. What about baby parades? They were a big deal. I have to dig some pictures up.

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Mimi, you would die. We would like that. Yes, there was a picture of me. My parents dressed me as a Playboy bunny.

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As a Playboy bunny? I was like five, I think, maybe. And the little ears. Back before I was chubby.

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You can take that off. Consider it deleted. I do remember that, actually. Actually, my kids did that when they were little.

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They still did it in Stone Harbor. I think they did it one year. Do you remember when they did it? It's in the summer, but I can't remember.

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I want to say they might still do it. You know what? I think they do. I've seen it printed on a foot.

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When did it stop being such a big deal? I don't know. They've only brought it back, I want to say, in the last ten years, maybe. Because it did stop for years.

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Because everything we have, all the pictures and people's recollections and stuff, people just seem to feel like it was such a big deal in the town. They did a boat parade down there, too. Again, that was something that stopped for years and then came back.

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And then Avalon did one. I remember I watched it last year for the Fourth of July. I'm trying to think of anything else off the top of my head. Let me see, I made some notes, some general notes.

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You talked about, I said, building of the new school in the 60s, so that's why you wouldn't remember that. Community Hall was 65. The new Avalon Borough Hall, 1995.

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Yeah, my mom worked for the borough for years. She was there 38 years, I think. She started when I was eight and just retired, I don't know, that was five years ago, maybe four years ago.

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What did she do then? She did a lot of things. She was the borough, she was Carol Mengel for a long time. She was the administrator secretary for a long time.

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Then she was in public works for a while, and then she ended up in the construction office the last year she was in there. So she kind of moved around a bit. So I would go in there after school, because it was right there.

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I would walk over after school until she got off work at four o'clock. When I was too young to be home alone. Did you guys go to church, your family? Not when I was younger, no.

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No, but there's a lot of people, a lot of Catholic families, CCD was a big thing. I don't want anybody to think I'm prying into their personal things, but it is, for this town, it's such a big,

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what church are you affiliated with, or whatever. It's so funny to me, because my father grew up Catholic, the altar boys, choir, he went to St. James in Chester, I think that's where it is.

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Then he moved here and didn't go at all. Now his parents at that point were gone, so I wonder sometimes if that was the reason. He was traumatized even more the past month.

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I don't know, but they did not either. And my mother, I don't know that she went super regularly. So that for me, to not have, I was kind of, growing up, I was kind of felt like real out of place if I ever was in church,

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because I didn't grow up going. And then you don't know all the church stories. Even today, I still don't, I'm not super comfortable going to church for weddings, funerals, that kind of stuff.

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We were married in the Lutheran church in Stone Harbor, and when the kids were younger, we tried to go, but we were never, what you would say, regular, every Sunday, churchgoers.

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Where was the library? Oh, I remember going to the library on 26th Street. On 26th Street? Yes.

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What was it like? Always old and musty and kind of yucky, and not anything like what we have now. I mean, that building, I mean, it is an awesome building

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because it has so much historical value, but when the library was in there, it was not a fun place to be. I remember going in there randomly for books,

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but not spending a ton of time in there. There's nothing in that. Is it storage? Is that what they use it for now?

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There's nothing in there. There's nothing in there. It's empty. And they can't move it, right, because it's not...

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Not that they can't move it, but actually probably moving it would cost more than restoring it. Right, right.

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I mean, to me, I don't really get that. Right, right. We're working on it. Yeah.

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Slowly. I mean, I think you actually very naturally covered most of the things that I asked about, which is great. I mean, I try to get a read from people on,

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you have talked about how the town has changed and stuff. What is your feeling about that? To me, Avalon will always be home. I do love it here, and I find that the older I get,

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the more I like the winter. When I was a kid, I was like, oh, the winter is nothing to do, blah, blah, blah. But now I enjoy the influx.

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By August, I'm kind of fed up, but I'm ready for them to head out. And then I love the fall. I mean, the fall is beautiful here.

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I feel like the weather, the... especially like September, because everything's still open, and the weather's still decent,

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and it's not quite as crazy and hectic. And the ocean's warm. And the ocean's warm, right. I love living here, but there are frustrations.

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They're here on vacation, and some of them are rude, and they're not... That would be living in any seasonal community. It's not just here.

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Yeah. But I used to really hate the winter. I used to complain about January, February, and March, and now I find it doesn't bother me like it used to.

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You're close enough that you can get to... Cape May is even more year-round than here, and Atlantic City, Philadelphia, New York, you're not that far when you live here.

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It bothers me that they're tearing down so much, and everything that goes up is just a monstrosity. I mean, if you drive down Dune Drive, those corners, I mean, little ranchers that...

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I mean, it looks like a hotel. And there's one... Have you seen the one down on... I think it's in the corner on Ninth Street.

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It's like an L shape. It looks like a hotel. I kid you not. If you're down that way, you should look.

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Yes. And they're still working on it. It's right across from the field. And of course, Ninth Street is one of the most historic,

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many historic things. I know. It's beautiful and quaint, but... Yeah.

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And I remember up on... I don't know if it's Avalon Avenue or First Avenue. There was three old houses in a row for a long time, and now I think there's one left

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because people have come in. So that is sad. To me, that is sad, especially when you drive down,

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even in... So in the winter, they're black. There's nobody in them. They're dark, right?

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And then in the summer, you... They're mostly black. I mean, they're lit up for, what, weekend here or there? So that part does...

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It is sad, and it does... What I feel has really changed is the school community. It's not... It's great to have a small school with small classes,

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but there's no... Almost... I would say it's like 70% of the kids do not live here. 70%, I would say, are tuition.

00:22:33.000 - 00:22:39.720

Mm-hmm. And that changes, like I said, like the rec sports and, like, the... It changes, like, the kids...

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So even on the weekends, the kids are not here. They're elsewhere. So then that really... It just changed...

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I can even see it with my kids. So I've got... My kid is... My oldest is 20, 18, and 15.

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Mm-hmm. The one who, in the middle, had 20 in his class, which is almost unheard of, it's coming back,

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but those 20 kids are not... You know, they're not from here, right? So he would always have a group here on the... Like, they were always around,

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but, like, my little one, he has one friend that he's really kept in contact with, and he lives offshore, like, that he went all through school with.

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So it's very, very different. Yeah. Very different. So that part is...

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I mean, it's sad, but I don't know how you change it. Right, and that's the thing, is everybody says, oh, the houses are coming down,

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and the families don't live here, but, like, it just seems like, what do you do? Well, I don't know.

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Because, like, the jobs... The job that you have to have to support what a home costs are not here. Like...

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It's not a real thing. Yeah. You can't do it. So, I mean, we bought our house

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in 1999. And we got our house for less than $200,000. And that was right before... Good job.

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The market went... Well, my parents helped us, like, get it, you know. But it was right before the market. We bought it in the spring.

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Or maybe we settled in December. I don't remember. No, I think it was in the spring. And by that fall,

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everything was, like, $100,000 more. Mm-hmm. So, like, I mean, it was this very small... We were lucky to get what we did,

00:24:09.560 - 00:24:13.980

and to get it... Or we would have been in a house, like, one of the little cottages that had no closets type thing.

00:24:14.400 - 00:24:20.560

It was, you know... Not that my house is a mansion by any stretch, but it was a comfortable size to raise our family. Yes.

00:24:20.560 - 00:24:28.500

You know what I mean? So, like, I feel very fortunate that we did that when we did. But there's no doing that anymore.

00:24:28.820 - 00:24:32.500

Right. So, even the small... I think the cheap... Because I look...

00:24:32.500 - 00:24:38.880

I mean, we look on... Kelly McPherson and I talk all the time about real estate. I think the cheapest small is, like, $400,000.

00:24:38.880 - 00:24:43.820

Like, you've got to be making some big bucks to support that kind of... Mm-hmm. So...

00:24:43.820 - 00:24:46.420

Yeah. So, it's tough. That part's... That's tough.

00:24:46.700 - 00:24:54.240

You're not going to get new families in, and, you know... So, I don't know what the answer to that is, but... Yeah, me neither.

00:24:55.540 - 00:25:00.840

My... I have a girlfriend that can tell you all about the Avalon Gems. So, I will give you her...

00:25:00.840 - 00:25:03.200

I can either give... I can take your... Do you have an email? Yes.

00:25:03.320 - 00:25:09.200

Is there an email in here? I will take this card and give her your email. Okay, cool. Rachel Schultz.

00:25:09.380 - 00:25:12.820

She grew up... Her mother still comes in the... Her mother comes in the library currently. Okay, cool.

00:25:12.820 - 00:25:17.380

She's the one getting help with the computer. Like, has never... God bless Sean. He has endless patience.

00:25:18.780 - 00:25:24.520

So... But she was very much involved in the rec and stuff. So, I would give her your email... ...or phone number, whatever,

00:25:24.680 - 00:25:28.660

and you can talk to her. I mean, if you... I think what frequently happens is that people go away,

00:25:28.740 - 00:25:33.620

and you're, like, driving around during the shower or something, and you say, like, oh, man, I should have told Nina about whatever.

00:25:33.740 - 00:25:37.080

So, just let me know. Yeah, I know. You know where to find me. Yes, absolutely.

00:25:37.940 - 00:25:40.060

Absolutely, yeah, sure. Thank you. Thank you.